Baltimore Orioles vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – June 17, 2012 – ESPN.
Frustration is mounting. The Braves, again, outhit their opponents (7-4) and still lost, handily. One way to achieve that is to hit into opportunity-killing double plays in each of the first three innings.
Randall Delgado certainly pitched well enough to win, allowing just three hits and one walk in eight innings. Unfortunately, two of the hits were doubles, and both batters wound up scoring without benefit of another hit. In the second, Adam Jones moved up on a flyout and scored on a sac fly. In the sixth, Steve Pearce went to third on a sac bunt and scored on a balk. And that’s all that the Orioles needed.
Probably a meaningless observation, but this team appears to me to be more volatile than any Braves team I can remember. They beat hell out of teams and go on a long winning streak, then immediately start getting their asses whipped and go on long losing streaks. Not sure if a volatility index exists for teams or if it would be informative if it did, but I’d love to know if this team is inordinately streaky or if I’m just making shit up.
You’re definitely not making it up. This team is amazingly streaky so far.
Well, that was no fun.
Got an extra ticket for both Monday & Tuesday nights @ Yankee Stadium, if any NYC-area folks are into it.
Hit me: djtimes at testa dot com.
If we’re gonna turn it around, might as well be against the Pinstripers.
That’s a clown offense, bro.
Also, I just saw Andrelton’s play and GOOD SWEET FREAKING LORD. He is 1997 Andruw Jones playing shortstop.
“Also, I just saw Andrelton’s play and GOOD SWEET FREAKING LORD. He is 1997 Andruw Jones playing shortstop.”
Does this mean Simmons is going to have a long, great career with the Braves, only to have people on DOB’s blog constantly and incessantly call him a “disappointment”?
Where to the Braves find these defensive wonders in Curacao? Are there more? I think they need to establish the first baseball academy on Curacao.
All NL East teams have lost today.
@5
I think you can safely count on that.
First game I get to attend this season (and this may be the first time I’ve actually gotten to comment here all season) and of course, we lose. On the flip-side, I did get to finally try out Bethany’s scoring sheet from over on Eephus League (I participated in the kickstarter for it). Though I forgot the instructions (and it’s been FOREVER since I scored a game) and actually only had a printout (my “official” one is sitting in my desk at work where I forgot it Friday), it was still a nice first attempt to score a game in ages.
Anyone but Durbin, seems so out of place when you come to realize he has been the most consistant reliever on the team over the last two months.
Oh! Durbin haters, go away and maybe you are thinking JD Durbin.
“Delgado” is Spanish for “thin”–so that explains the lack of run support.
on the bright side, Randy Delgado has looked much better his last few starts. that’s the best I can do for optimism right now.
So we send Medlin down to AAA to get ready to start. We call him back up after a few starts. Then, one of our starters goes down and we are going to use JJ instead?
Simmons is another bright spot. The rest of the team is a shit show. The few hits we do get seem to be mostly opposite field singles. Complete power outage. No homers = lots of losses.
I guess I should point out the obvious: in the 7 games that Jose Constanza has started, we’re 6-1. We are 29-29 in all other games.
#Barves, indeed.
Dan Uggla, Michael Bourn, Martin Prado, and Craig Kimbrel are all having excellent seasons.
Hudson and Hanson are doing fine. Hanson has shown no signs of discomfort. I think Hudson’s ERA will go down after interleague play. Delgado is settling in and seems to have a high ceiling.
Before the season, most people saw this team as about a slightly above .500 team. Well, that’s what it is.
What this team needs to become great is for Heyward and/or Freeman to become elite hitters who can stay healthy.
@5
The guys on DOB’s blog thought Bruce Chen pitched today. That’s really all you need to know about their baseball IQ.
So, 20 scoreless innings in a row, huh? I’d tip my cap to the Orioles, but I’ve long since removed it, applied lighter fluid, and set it on fire.
@12 I know. I guess they are very concerned with EOF and Jonny now that they had to keep Medlen in the pen.
@1 I blame that on Fredi.
Delgado is already better than Minor.
Wow, Redmond is finally up. It’s about time. Congratulations to him. Well deserved and long overdue.
Now we can finally find out what Tyler Yates has gotten us.
I wonder if some of the streakiness could be ameliorated by having Heyward bat third. Bourn and Prado are pretty consistent, and Heyward’s hitting well recently. Let McCann hit cleanup, as his luck’s turning around, and Uggla — who, like our whole offense, is pretty streaky himself — can bat fifth.
Now that we have some pretty obvious voids to fill, the challenge for Wren is going to be filling them without giving away the future of the team.
@21 We have nothing to trade. We need every single one of them right now. Unless we are willing to trade Teheran, we have absolutely nothing which other teams would be interested….except perhaps our first round pick of last year…or Minor…I am not trading Delgado now.
If we can only trade for one thing, what would you want to get? A bat or a arm? If a arm, a starter or one for the bullpen?
Starter or LF’r
Yeah, that’s exactly my point. Wren will have to get creative somehow.
It depends on what the deal is with Beachy. If he’s OK, I would prefer to get offense and try to trade Minor (while his under-the-hood stats still suggest a reasonable ERA) for Willingham, Quentin, or maybe even LaHair (although I don’t know if I’d pull the trigger on that deal). The Cubs might want Bethancourt or Gilmartin but could probably do better than that. They and the Rockies would also have to be crazy to want Minor pitching in their respective parks, so it’s tough to find the right seller. The Twins and Padres should have more use for Minor, and of the injury-prone OF bats they have, let’s get the guy under contract after this year.
I was all excited to have remembered Zeke Spruill until I looked him up just now and saw just 51 Ks in 84 IP.
I’m afraid we’re going to end up with Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano.
Bill James’ top 2012 baserunning teams (numbers are extra bases credited):
Braves +54
Athletics +46
Giants +30
Mariners +28
Phillies +26
Individuals:
Tony Campana +27
Emilio Bonifacio +21
Carlos Gonzalez +20
Angel Pagan +20
Michael Bourn +19
Martin Prado +19
Jimmy Rollins +19
Jason Kipnis +19
The system is +1 for an extra base taken, and -3 for being thrown out attempting to take an extra base or otherwise botching it. Since Bourn is AT LEAST -3 on bad ump calls already this year, he should be ~+31.
I really dont see how we could afford to trade a starter if Beachy is done (which Im expecting that to be the case). Minor and Delgado would have to be part of the rotation moving forward unless you are trading them for Dempster.
All this is useless since our offense sucks again and cant score. I dont think shuffling around the batting order is going to change much either.
This bad stretch has the team looking exactly like the teams from a few years ago. Lots of losses where they ‘outhit’ the other team, but with no extra-base hits. You can’t always chalk it up to bad luck when your team hits 6 singles and they don’t all happen in the same inning.
Another shutout, another June,
Another AL East disaster looms,
Another season,
Another reason,
…
Oh, hell I’m sick of this. Fire Wren and give someone else a shot. He’s been almost as beneficial to the organization as Chick Tanner.
Without the charisma…
@ 28
Of course I meant Chuck “if everybody stays healthy and we play well, we’ll have a great season” Tanner.
Yeah it’s all about the complete lack of extra-base hits lately. I’d like to see our record in games that we homer vs games that we don’t. Unless someone else steps up then Uggla is going to see nothing be breaking balls low and away and he’ll either walk or get himself out. The only other guy on the team right now that even seems capable of hitting a ball past an outfielder is McCann, and he doesn’t play every day.
Braves w/hr: 27-14, w/o hr: 8-17
allow hr: 17-21, allow no hr:18-10
Also interesting Mondays: 0-9, Fridays 8-1
Chipper’s old, hurt, maybe distracted. McCann’s a part time player. Why Freeman wasn’t put on the DL I can only guess.
On the other hand, Prado, Bourn and Jason are doing okay; and when Chipper sits, the left side of our infield may be the best in the league defensively and maybe overall.
I love the Braves, but I hate ’em too.
@26, When we’re outhitting the other team and yet scoring fewer runs, it’s at least possible that grouping the hitters who are hitting together could help, with a little luck.
Agree about Beachy. It’s clearly not ideal to send out Hudson, Hanson, Delgado/Minor, Teheran, Jurrjens.
Seems these past two years under Fredi that the Braves have been too streaky. I dont know if you chalk that up to the roster construction, his managing style, or bad luck. Everyone hits and we pitch good or no one hits and we cant get an out.
I dont think this team is just one hitter or pitcher away either.
Im gonna miss Chipper when he’s gone, but he certainly hasnt helped since coming back from that leg injury. Id also like to see him move on and quit talking about the blown leads by the bullpen, esp. after the Baltimore pitchers shut down the offense for 20+ innings.
If Fredi were fired, would Terry Francona be a good fit for the Braves?
His last stint doesnt look to be that good. Id rather give Eddie Perez a try. Francona had an umlimited budget and lost his clubhouse.
I remember there was this guy who used to hang around here and tell us all about how the manager is “managing men,” and how that’s so much more important than tactics.
Well, I think with Chipper harping on the blown leads, we can see how poor tactical managing can effect the morale of the “men.”
You bring Livan in with a lead and let him give the game away and end a winning streak, and there’s a 10 day hangover with guys pressing to be the hero.
I don’t think replacing Fredi will all of a sudden make us a better hitting team. All it will do is (hopefully) reduce the number of times we are left scratching our heads when a pinch hitter is the tying run at the plate late in the game and instead of McCann we get Jack Wilson.
@41, Unless we hire away Ron Roenicke, I don’t think that’s going to happen.
The Cubs fired Rudy Jaramillo. I wouldn’t mind seeing him sitting next to Heyward.
I wouldn’t either. Although a lot of those Texas hitters who turned it around may have had assistance from sources other than Rudy, if you catch my drift.
I haven’t heard anything definitive about Beachy. Am fearing the worst.
Any news? Thanks.
Suppose to have MRI today. Nothing yet
I’ve watched several mlb games recently where the broadcasters have remarked on the rash of pitching injuries and DL-stints or season-ending surgeries needed in the past couple of years, and how remarkable it is. They blamed it on bad mechanics and guys having to throw 95 to even get looked at by scouts. Glavine talked about “throwers vs pitchers” in the last Braves broadcast. But nobody talked about how eliminating rampant PED use might also be a factor…
NY Post’s Joel Sherman wrote today that the Rockies may be forced to deal CarGo. I’m sure it’d take a ton of prospects but he’d solve a lot of our issues.
Which is when someone inevitably says something about the Coors Field effect, which forces me to post this little piece on CarGo, Holliday, and their home/road splits as Rockies.
Holliday’s a great hitter. But that piece is a little weird, because wRC+ normalizes for park effects.
If you look at his raw numbers, it’s pretty obvious that Coors helped him. From 2006-2008 in Denver, he hit .329/.400/.579; from 2010-2012 in St. Louis, he has hit .301/.384/.520.
If Carlos Gonzalez ever leaves Colorado, his numbers will unquestionably go down. He’ll still be a fine player, I’m sure, but he won’t hit for us like he hits for them.
Bourn
Prado
Bmac
Uggla
Diaz
Chipper
Heyward
Simmons
Ross
Fredi texts Constanza all the time.
Fredi carries a picture of Constanza in his wallet.
Cargo is a hall of famer if he could play all his game at Coors. Away from Coors, he’s not worth his contract or the cost of prospects it would take to acquire him. Good player, not great, not worth the $17-20mil you’d be paying him in those final years of his contract.
As a first baseman this season, Hinske is 3-for-38 (.079) with no extra-base hits. Since May 5, whether starting or pinch-hitting, Hinske is 4-for-54 (.074) with no extra-base hits, one RBI, seven walks and 20 strikeouts.
And we thought Wilson and Fransisco were awful.
Yeah, outside of Diaz, the bench hasn’t been very good.
As for Chipper, I think he definitely came back too quickly, in part becuase McCann’s been banged up and Freddie’s hurt. I’m glad Freeman’s got the night off again. Hope he’s able to go again soon.
The good
•#Braves Freeman feeling lot better today, can clinch bat, bend finger with less discomfort. Likely to play tomorrow if no setbacks. 5 mins ago
The not so good
•Wren didn’t seem optimistic abt injury, not like #Braves manager Fredi, who said he’s optimistic by nature, not based on anything w/ Beachy. 8 mins ago
DOB also said Beachy may not meet with the doctor until tomorrow.
Yahoo – After eight weeks, 46 witnesses, two dozing jurors and an estimated $2-$3 million spent in taxpayer money, the Roger Clemens trial has finally come to a close.
Not guilty on all 6 counts. Waste of time.
@58, clearly you were not thinking of the children.
Guilty but not convicted. Happens all the time.
I was feeling cranky because @50 was fair about the whole thing and took away my straw man, but @54 stood it right back up again. Yay.
Everyone knows Coors Field makes it easier for all hitters, but it also makes it harder for Rockies hitters to hit away. Playing away exposes them to pitches with real breaking movement, which they’re not as accustomed to. You can’t look at CarGo’s away splits and say, “That’s who he really is.” We find out who they really are when they’re no longer Rockies. If CarGo were to decline as much as Holliday did, he’s still a player teams should crave to control through his peak.
Practically any player making $17-20 mil a season won’t be worth whatever they’re getting paid at the end of their contracts. I don’t think the Rockies would trade CarGo to us, and I don’t think we would pay the price it’d take to acquire him, but I would absolutely love to be proven wrong.
Perhaps – but the burden of proof was (rightfully) on the prosecution, and both their evidence and witnesses were problematic to say the least. They knew this going in, and proceeded anyway.
Proceeded twice, actually.
As Crow said in Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie, “Believe me, Mike, I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid… and I went ahead anyway.”
Thanks, Adam. And I don’t disagree with you. By the way, I should make clear, when I said “In Denver” and “In St. Louis,” I meant when he wore those uniforms. I wasn’t just speaking about home numbers.
There’s a difficult gap – a dissonance – between knowing that a crime has been committed and convincing a jury with admissible evidence. I have several friends who are prosecutors and they wrestle with these decisions all the time. But the criminal court system is the system we’ve chosen and – by and large – it works. Just not in this instance. I can live with Clemens not facing state punishment for lying.
There’s your run, Mike. Good get ’em, tiger.
*Go
Braves are on ESPN for free over the interwebs even in in Atlanta.
Mike brought his A game tonight. Hope it’s good enough.
Were you aware of this? According to the Star Wars Wookieepedia:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Barve
Gives a whole new meaning to that #Barves hashtag.
Okay, maybe Mike Minor’s not that bad. I’ll suspend judgment for a few innings.
Minor’s a Yankee killer. That’s why the Rays should trade us Longoria for him.
Chip on Chipper: “Drives it deep to right center.” 385 to the fence and Granderson caught it ten or so feet in front of the warning track.
Let’s give it an inning or two before deciding Mike’s got his groove back.
Throw strikes, Mike.
It’s a lot more fun to watch Andrew strikeout in a Yankee uniform.
Double plays are more fun when the other team is hitting into them.
Batting against Mike Minor, career
Innings 1-3: .275/.327/.462
Innings 4-6: .312/.374/.512
Let’s see what happens in the 4th.
First time through the lineup, Mike’s given me nothing to complain about.
Sigh. Right you are, Coop.
More fun when they hit into them.
80- Unfortunately, our lineup has given us plenty.
“A swinging foul ball strike,’ says Chip. As opposed to what?
Play some shortstop, Andrelton.
Good through four, Mike.
Bloops are okay.
Redirected groundballs too.
Bourn!
Thanks, Michael!
And Kent State eliminates Florida, so at least something went right tonight.
I’d rather have just about anyone but Chipper hitting.
Thank goodness it’s BMac that couldn’t get it done.
WHY ALL THE FIRST PITCH SWINGING!?
Because the Braves fear other teams’ bullpens. Duh.
You bite your tongue, Brian!
I mean seriously, do they think there’s a shot clock or something? Once you get a man in scoring position, you only get 5 pitches to drive him in.
Cut it out, AAR. Enough of your doom and gloom.
Here we go.
Is everyone still loving Minor?
Mike Minor: “Oh no, my no hitter is gone. Time to give up and sulk. I’m so adorable when I pout.”
Strike zone’s moving tonight.
Great pitch to get Andruw.
At Bat says he threw Andruw three strikes, but they weren’t the ones he called….
Got lucky there with the fan interference.
I hate it when you’re right, Alex.
Sutcliffe is unbearable.
Mike Minor is unbearable.
Did Joe just say the eighth three ball count?!
MIKE MINOR WHAT IS YOUR FREAKING PROBLEM.
I hate Mike Minor
I hate the Yankees, and I am sick of Jeter.
I did say it was Minor’s A game. Unfortunately, that’s about even with the Yankees’ C or D game.
Disgusting.
Nibbling so much you have to eventually throw a strike and they patiently hammer it
Even the ESPN announcers have noted Fredi’s dead slug in-game managing style.
I would pay money to go to a game and boo this team.
10 straight! Derek Jeter and the New York Jeters can not be stopped!
I’m sure Minor will go out for the 6th and get in more trouble.
I boo them at home for free.
Fredi is going to blame the bad gas in the dugout on Mike Minor.
“Analysts are concerned about the arm of Mike Minor.”
I’m concerned too. I’m concerned that he will continue to use it to throw baseballs for the Braves.
You figure it will usually take 5+ runs to beat these guys. I’m still not sure we can score than many in the whole series.
Minor got in trouble, but all in all hasn’t pitched bad. He just got wild, and the walks cost him, but the big hit was a little dinker up the middle.
True, but one of those runs should have scored on that not-cheap double.
Watching Matt Diaz bat is like watching a 400-lb woman drop some cargo after destroying a Chinese buffet.
I think krussell’s hit the nail on the head. If an opponent scores three runs with our offense, we’re toast.
Would any of our players start for the Yankees besdies McCann? Bourn might get a few starts I guess. Everyone else would not see the field.
Anyone surprised? Anyone at all?
You guys called it.
Maybe y’all will do better without me. I’ll check back later, but I can’t stand any more of this right now.
I’ve never seen a pitcher with less damage control than Minor.
Guys, guys.
It’s Monday.
133- So that explains why i felt like, to quote Homer Simpson, a lonely, insignificant speck on a has-been planet orbited by a cold, indifferent sun.
Meds should have come in in the 5th. I mean, he’s stretched out, right?
135 — But the flow chart says he can’t come in before the 7th…
Fredi cares about accumulating outs, not about preventing runs. That’s why he runs guys out for one more inning. That’s we carried Livan, that’s why we get mop up relievers in winnable games. He just wants to get to the end of the game.
When Minor bounces one up to the plate, that’s the time to pull him.
We’ve hit one ball kinda hard tonight. Good times.
Yeesh. It is the Yankees after all. They’re hot, we’re not. Relax.
Venters still can’t find home plate with a team of Sherpas, but got bailed out.
@138 – definitely agree. Minor needs to develop a reliable breaking ball to get past the 5th inning as a starter. He tires too quickly for the fastball/ change to carry him beyond 80-90 pitches and he starts over throwing the change.
Minor seems to lose command of the fastball quite often. Ross was calling for nothing but offspeed pitches in the 5th because they were scared of where the fastball might be going. He’s got a decent fastball too…just has to trust it more. He’s pitching away from contact, which is understandable given where he is, who he’s facing, and how crappy our offense is.
If Minor doesn’t have more than 2 pitches he trusts then he shouldn’t be a starter.
Minor hasn’t had more than two pitches since he was called up. He’s been fastball/ change and an unreliable curve.
Maybe Chipper should go spend some time with his family. He’s not doing any good here.
More good news: don’t be hurt, Jason.
@143 is right. Minor had a pretty good breaking ball going today. His problem was losing control on his fastball.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say their team is better than ours.
Your move, Wren.
We should just have one terrible season to tell Wren that this model is not going to work…
There may be two teams in New York better than ours. How sad. So what 2 runs scored in 30 innings?
Mmmm. Blows, this team does. Mmmm.
Minor seems to only be good when he cant throw the fastball inside to RHd’rs for strikes. That doesnt happen all that often.
The Braves are like that ‘meh’ T-Shirt advertisement, without the hot model to go in it.
Beachy has a partial tear of his UCL….
….yeah.
Yep, getting 2nd opinion from Dr Andrews on Wednesday. Why even bother meeting with anyone other than Dr Andrews? Dont worry though, JJ’s healthy and ready to pick up the slack.
I HATE YOU, UNIVERSE.
Partial tear. Is that good?
Anyway, I went to the game tonight with Journal visitor Jonathan F. Hanging out with him turned out to be the evening’s upside. Always good to talk with an Atlanta Braves fan from the original era.
An exchange from the game, when Jeter came up with 2 outs & the bases loaded.
Him: I think the #9 hitter makes outs on purpose so that Jeter can inherit the hero spot.
Me (with a pretty good idea of what’s about to happen): Y’know, I’ve seen this very moment way too many times…
Going to the next 2 games, as well. Let’s break their winning streak, guys. Gotta turn this thing around.
No, it means Tommy John surgery–unless the second opinion is different.
So, now what? Matt Garza?
Hudson, Hanson, Delgado… I’m depressed.
Most UCL tears are partial tears. They can try to shut him down for 6-8 weeks and rehab it. That worked for a little bit with Arodys Vizcaino, but you know he needed TJS this spring. The best route here is probably TJS and get Beachy back around next August.
Hopefully not. They weren’t a great team with Beachy; they sure as hell won’t be good enough now, even with another arm.
Buddy Carlyle, ya’ll.
3-1, 2.36 ERA, 34.1 IP, 9 ER, 1 HR, 6 BB, 7.34 K/9, 2.56 FIP, .310 BABIP,
@156 It’s probably cheaper! And they don’t have to go all the way to Birmingham to see him.
Don’t worry guys. We’ll finally trade for Willingham, two seasons too late, so the FO can look like they’re trying. It’ll work on the AJC fans out there.
Ugh, ennui.
Give it a little time, and we could be discussing what we should be getting for Bourn or (gulp) McCann. I hate to be morose, but there it is.
I think this means we will make a move for a pitcher.
As well has Minor has pitched against the Yankees, the Red Sox might over pay for him.
Fire sale.
@167 – McCann’s value is at an all time low. I think the trading chips are Bourn and Hanson. Maybe if Jurrjens strings together 4-5 quality starts people will see value.
This is predicated on a collapse. We would need to be 10+ back at the All Star break.
This just continues to baffle me.
Melky – .363/.401/.535 .405BABIP
Partial tear. Is that good?
Braves thought so with Vizcaino. They could give it rest and move him to the pen to save his arm. Neither were successful, it just delayed the surgery a year.
DOB is also morose today:
I sure don’t see competing for playoffs w/ Minor/Delgado/Teheran as 3 of your 5 starters.
I think we are going to go after a starter. I would imagine we would be in on Dempster.
Nevermind, he is on the DL
#173 – Then how do you feel it being Minor/Delgado/Jurrjens?
Let’s see how we react over the ext week or so. If we get swept by the Yanks and drop 2/3 or worse to the BoSox and the Nats pummel us, then we can think about cutting bait for next year.
@176 Those were DOB’s words, not mine. I can;t pin down this team, they are great one minute and awful the next. I don’t think they will do anything this year with Beachy out.
How much value could you even get for Bourn given his contract status? We have no spare parts to offer anyone. We’re basically the Atlanta Hawks. A bit better than average, with no obvious ways to get better. The thing we have to hope for is that Freeman and Heyward and Simmons all become great players, and the young pitching that we hoarded turns out to be the real deal rather than Braves farm-system hype. That may happen over the next several years. It’s not likely to happen this year though.
I’m not advocating trading McCann. Yet. But there’s no doubt he’s extremely valuable. Any GM that wouldn’t look under the hood or put his money on the track record would be a fool. And I would think the return we’d get would only decrease over time as he approaches free agency.
Get used to this kind of talk because starting now, it’s only going to increase. We won’t and shouldn’t deal McCann now, but he could get us more than Bourn or Hanson, whose decline seems real to me.
Yikes again
@ajcbraves Great teams, or even really good teams, deal with injuries and have others step forward and pick up slack. These #Braves haven’t done that.
It’s probably been mentioned, but the Braves seem to play in the toughest division while also having the toughest interleague schedule I’ve ever seen. What gives?
Recapped.
181 — I saw that too. I think everyone knew the team had a number of ifs to begin with, though. Realities of a mediocre budget seem to be that you need things to go your way.