09 Nov
Where I would turn
Marco Scutaro Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com.
Scutaro has always been a favorite of mine. He’s coming off sort of a career year (in that he slugged a career-high .423) but one in which he misssed nearly fifty games. He’s a good player who meets the Braves’ needs — he has pretty good on-base skills and is a solid glove, if not what he was a few years ago. He’s signed for one more year. He is from, yes, Venezuela. I think that the Red Sox would let him go relatively cheap. And he’s not Alex Gonzalez or Jack Wilson.
Fire away.
Good glove/no hit SS are a dime a dozen. Re sign Gonzalez or an equivelent then get a dang left fielder that can hit. We need offense. Jurrjens should be traded for an outfielder.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:15 amIf we get him we would need to add a power bat to the OF. He would allow us to call up Pats to play some and he can fill in for Chipper. He would make Prado expendable.
However, if he got off to a slow start, he would be front runner the Whipping Boy
November 9th, 2011 at 8:25 amScutaro is a different type of “hitter” than Gonzalez, and a much better one, with a .338 career OBP (better than Gonzalez’s career high).
November 9th, 2011 at 8:38 am@3
November 9th, 2011 at 8:55 amAge 36?
Hmmm?
Signed just for 2012, so if it doesn’t work out minimal investment.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:14 amLowrie please. Switch hitter with high OBP potential and wouldnt cost much. In fact, we might be able to get Reddick and Lowrie for Jurrjens, killing 2 birds with one stone. Reddick’s a great 4th OF and would give us exactly what we need: backup at all OF spots, LH batter to compliment the RH hitting Diaz and Prado.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:21 amFormerly Luis Valdez turned Jairo Asencio is lights out once again in Winter Leagues: 8.1 IP 0.00ERA 13K 4saves
I feel bad for guys like this that get stuck in our system due to poor performance during callups with extremely small sample sizes. He and Cory Gearrin might never pitch for the Braves again. Can’t we just give them to the Pirates?
November 9th, 2011 at 9:31 am@7
They should both be pitching in the Braves bullpen next season, in my opinion. Both were excellent in AAA this season, have strengths that should translate to the majors, and will probably be better than whatever overpriced veteran Wren convinces himself he needs (for a recent example: see Linebrink, Scott).
Also, I like Scutato as well. But he’s set to make, what, $5.5 million?
November 9th, 2011 at 10:04 amI agree he’s the best of a lot of imperfect options. My main concern would be how much the Red Sox want in return for him. With Lowrie’s injury history, they’ve no reason to make a deal, and therefore have all the leverage in a negotiation.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:16 amI get the sense that the Braves have decided that Gonzalez is not coming back – even at a bargain price. Is that correct?
If so, Scutaro would certainly work for a year. A solid glove and decent OBP would be fine at that position for this team.
Just don’t think Prado in LF is the answer. Great utilityman, but not what we need in left. Why is this so hard?
November 9th, 2011 at 10:36 amI’d rather have Clint Barmes. Yeah, you heard me. He’s available on the free agent market and would be cheaper. His bat is above replacement level for the position and he is Gold Glove caliber with the glove. He outperformed Scutaro in both fWAR and bWAR in 2011.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:36 amScutaro sounds like Prado lite but with a better glove. Fine for a stopgap I suppose.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:44 amNot too sure about Barmes. His career slash line away from his hitter haven home parks is .230/.276/.361. If that doesn’t look familiar, it should.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:17 amGrady Sizemore at 90% is probably better than any LF option we have. Question is: can we reasonably expect him to be 90%?
Bourn
Sizemore
Chipper
Uggla
McCann
Freeman
Heyward
Scutaro / Wilson / Pastornicky
Pitcher
Not bad. Leans too heavily on Chipper and Sizemore being healthy, but not bad.
And (big AND) we haven’t traded away any of our pitching depth.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:52 amI think the Braves will offer arbitration to Gonzalez. (My understanding is they’ll get a draft pick if declined).
November 9th, 2011 at 11:54 amIf Gonzalez accepts, they have their ss for 1 year, which is not a bad outcome. If not, they can look for trades, such as Scutaro. The fact that most of the rest of the NL East could be looking for a ss could complicate things. Gonzalez, or Scutaro could be fits for the Phillies. I’d be very surprised if the Phils are willing to give Rollins 4 or 5 years.
It has been interesting to see Theo Epstein sign a series of Mac’s guys, particularly Mike Cameron and Marco Scutaro. Scutaro is definitely a far better hitter than AAG and Jack Wilson, and a worse fielder, though on balance his edge in hitting is greater than his deficiency in fielding. He would be a perfect placeholder for a year, if we could get him for $1.5 million or so.
That said, I’m not morally opposed to a year of Jack Wilson or AAG batting #8. If we have $1.5 million to spend, I want to see it spent above slot in the draft.
November 9th, 2011 at 12:04 pmDOB now tweeting about Seth Smith having “appeal”. BLECK!
November 9th, 2011 at 12:27 pmMaybe Seth Smith has a really manly Harley or something…
November 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pmHow the hell is Auburn a 13 point dog to Georgia?
November 9th, 2011 at 1:24 pm@17
Yeah, MLB Trade rumors noted that the Rockies might try and flip him for Prado.
DOB is the mouth piece of the front office.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:24 pm#19
November 9th, 2011 at 1:25 pmTake the points.
I can certainly see Auburn losing, but goodness, they have acquitted themselves pretty well through a brutal schedule, with a road win over SC that beat GA in Athens.
November 9th, 2011 at 1:37 pmThe real question you have to ask is, “Can both teams combine for 13 points?”
November 9th, 2011 at 2:15 pm@9, The Red Sox have very good reason to make a deal. They need upgraded SP, and they have quite the surplus at SS. That they have Scutaro, Lowrie, Aviles, and even Iglesias if he emerges means that they could even afford to deal one of them for less-than-market-value and not worry over it too much. Not that they would, just that they could.
My tweet to DOB about Sox SS surplus went unanswered.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:22 pm#15–I agree that offering arbitration to Gonzalez is an attactive option. At worst, they pick up a draft pick and find someone to play SS until either Pastornicky or Simmons is ready. Gonzalez would certainly fit the bill if he stays. The Braves could then focus their efforts on an LF….
November 9th, 2011 at 2:24 pm#22
Not that the visiting school in this series ever needs extra motivation, but that’s some genuine bulletin-board material.
FWIW, I would’ve figured UGA to be about a 6.5-point fave, assuming that Isaiah Crowell plays & Malcolm Mitchell doesn’t. I don’t think the Dogs will rack up the points like Clemson, Arkansas or LSU did.
If I’m Auburn, I gamble on stopping the run, discouraging Crowell & waiting for the big mistake from #11. If Murray plays a complete game & hits all the percentage passes, good for him. I see something like 21-16 UGA.
Still, nothing ever surprises me in this series. An Auburn win certainly wouldn’t.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:54 pmI saw the Meat Puppets a couple days ago, and remembered Ububba telling me about seeing them back in the old days, playing their freaked-out country punk to Black Flag fans. Curt Kirkwood is a guitar god. It was one of the best rock shows I’ve seen in years. I feel lucky I got to see them.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:55 pmAt worst, they pick up a draft pick and find someone to play SS
At worst he accepts and is your starting SS plus gets a raise.
November 9th, 2011 at 2:57 pmIf we keep A-Gon (or Wilson), it has to be under the premise that we upgrade the rest of the team sufficient so that he never bats anywhere but 8th or 9th.
And maybe it’s just because I grew up thinking that Jerry Royster was the best you could expect out of a utility guy, but I really see Prado as an essential component for 2012 as a super-utility guy. As Chipper insurance alone…
November 9th, 2011 at 3:18 pmAs much as I dont want AAG, I really dont want Jack Wilson as our everyday SS.
November 9th, 2011 at 4:02 pmMac, if you haven’t seen it yet your IBB question to Bill James inspired actual research by the grand poobah:
http://www.billjamesonline.com/baseball_and_not_baseball/
November 9th, 2011 at 4:40 pmI agree that I don’t want Wilson as an everyday SS. If Pastornicky was ready I wouldn’t mind having Wilson come off the bench, but from Wren’s comments I don’t think that will be the case. You get about the same fielding with Wilson as AAG and you may get a little better BA/OBP with no power. Not a bad late inning replacement and spot starter, but nothing more.
November 9th, 2011 at 5:35 pmJust a word about Paterno: it’s very easy for people to be sanctimonious about what he should have done or what they would have done in a similar situation. But, it might not be so easy if it’s someone you have worked with and been friends with for, I guess, 30 years or something. I’m not saying Paterno didn’t screw up and what Sandusky did is despeccable. But people are awfully quick to show their rightous indignation when they aren’t involved.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:23 pmNo more Gonzalez at shortstop.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:39 pm“DOB is the mouth piece of the front office.”
Isn’t that Bowman?
November 9th, 2011 at 8:40 pmThe creator of Jeffy has died.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/story/2011-11-09/Family-Circus-creator-Bil-Keane-dies-at-89/51141556/1
November 9th, 2011 at 8:41 pm@32
Maybe so. But the nature, frequency, and duration of the alleged crimes supersedes the usual calculus of sporting, or even personal, loyalties.
November 9th, 2011 at 8:51 pmNationals catcher Wilson Ramos kidnapped in Venezuela.
http://wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2626688
November 9th, 2011 at 9:04 pmThat Ramos thing is crazy
November 9th, 2011 at 9:24 pmPenn St board of trusties to make an announcement at 10 est.
Here is what I want to know:
Why is no one calling out Mike McQueary? Here is someone who saw the act taking place and did not step in. He did not go to the police. He told his boss and never followed up on it. What 28 year old man doesn’t whip Sandusky’s ass on the spot? Why is the media not going after McQueary? He is as guilty, if not more so, than Paterno.
November 9th, 2011 at 9:50 pmPaterno is out. Will not coach another game. WPVI In Philly
November 9th, 2011 at 9:54 pmJust put Prado at short. I am sure Huddy would love that, and I am sure you know I am kidding.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:02 pmFox TV Philly: ‘Police in riot gear are manned throughout the campus in light of the pending announcement.’
November 9th, 2011 at 10:14 pmThose stupid kids, going and getting raped… they cost us our football coach!
November 9th, 2011 at 10:23 pmThese reporters are terrible. They sound like angry fans
November 9th, 2011 at 10:25 pmWow. This is beyond even what you could imagine regarding the end of the Paterno era.
Oh well. Child sex abuse has to be stamped out like the plague that it is. There is no gray area. There is no “sanctimonious” as I saw mentioned above. You can’t be too “sanctimonious” when it comes to this.
November 9th, 2011 at 10:27 pmI am waiting on Paterno to come in and ask a question
November 9th, 2011 at 10:32 pmSeth Smith
Home: .296/.366/.559
Away: .257/.332/.418
And he’s left handed.
Please pass Wren
November 9th, 2011 at 10:46 pmWhy is no one calling out Mike McQueary?
Check it: http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/11/the-mystery-of-cowardice
November 9th, 2011 at 11:06 pmAm I correct in stating that the Braves allowed the fewest number of unearned runs last season? If so, Gonzalez had a lot to do with that. Can’t be too strong defensively up the middle. He’ll drive me nuts when he swings at sliders in the left-handed batter’s box, but, if he can provide another year of solid defense, I can live with his bat for one more year.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:10 pm@49
YES! I don’t get this. The former GA should be run out of town!
November 9th, 2011 at 11:12 pmMarc S, I don’t disagree with you. It is hard for me to state with moral certitude that I would have done the right thing when confronted with unspeakable horror in the center of a cult of personality. So if I’m honest, I should be humble about my failings and hope that I would have the courage to do the right thing.
That said, it’s pretty hard not to have a great deal of moral indignation about this. This is about as unambiguous a case of evil since Kevin Ricks.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:41 pmYeah, the charge of sanctimoniousness should be saved for a situation containing a little more moral ambiguity. Any horse that gets your feet out of the muck is the high horse here.
November 9th, 2011 at 11:54 pmSeems the PSU student body only got my torch and pitchfork idea half right.
November 10th, 2011 at 12:19 amI completely agree with Marc. No one is excusing anything anyone did, but to think it’s not possible for someone (especially someone as old as Paterno) to convince themselves that their old, trusted friend isn’t really a child rapist is absurd.
November 10th, 2011 at 12:40 amRight move by the PSU trustees. They had to do a clean sweep.
November 10th, 2011 at 12:45 amMy father — who is a few years younger than Paterno was at the time — says that in that situation he doesn’t think he could have done more than Paterno did.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:58 amThat’s quite different from acknowledging that, especially given the repercussions, not doing more constitutes a fireable offense.
November 10th, 2011 at 6:17 amHappy 236th birthday, Marines. God bless America and the United States Marine Corps. Semper fidelis.
November 10th, 2011 at 7:27 amFarewell Matt Young. May your feet be swift and your bat be unbreakable in Detroit.
November 10th, 2011 at 8:18 amPoythress Day. Literally no idea where he’ll sign. Could be any of the four. Remarkable how secretive he’s been able to stay.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:23 amI think the trustees had to get rid of Paterno. But no one actually knows what they would do in a given situation. History shows that people-even otherwise good people-are capable of almost anything under the right circumstances. Paterno should have done more, but it’s not as if he raped those kids himself. People are complaining that Paterno put friendship over his moral obligation, but ask yourself if you wouldn’t be conflicted if you were told about something a three-decades old friend did.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:37 amLet’s hope this turns out to be untrue – because if so, I’ll go up there with my own torch and pitchfork.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jerry-sandusky-donors-2011-11
November 10th, 2011 at 9:45 amI think they should’ve let him finish out the season. Obviously, no one is blameless, but the guy put 60 years of his life into the university, and did report the crime to his superiors. I agree he has to go, but a few more games isn’t changing anything, and that type of service should count for something.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:10 amYou think the PSU board wants to see Joe carried off the field after his last home game before being forced to retire for harboring a predator? Or the certain protest, counter-protests, and potential for violence over the next three games? Joe told them to f off with his little “You can’t fire me, I quit, p.s., not for another month plus a bowl game” stunt. Having him take the field would have been a complete disaster.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:16 amMarc at 62,
I acknowledge that turning in a friend to go to jail could be difficult, but there were ohter things that Paterno could have and should have done:
1. Confront Sandusky and tell him to (a) not come on campus again and (b) not to continue to be arond young boys OR ELSE Joe WOULD go to police.
2. Follow up with the AD and push instead of be passive.
I have since this first broke on Saturday morning suspected that Paterno had much more kknowledge than what has yet to be revealed officially. I remember specifically (not the year, but the rough time line) Sandusky going from being the “designated heir apparent” to “retired and out of here.” It smelled VERY suspicious then.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:26 amJoe absolutely had to go.
He is not going to be the last head that rolls in this either. Penn State is going to get hammered when more info comes out, and there is always much more to the story.
If that link from Spike proves to be real we need some public executions for all involved.
Prado for Seth Smith is another horrible thought.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:30 amIt’s already a complete disaster; firing JoePa doesn’t change that. If he were charged w/a crime, or even being investigated, I could see it, but he’s not.
Yes, he should’ve done more, but weighing everything, I think they should’ve let him finish the season. In no way do I discount the monstrosity that occurred, but firing him doesn’t change that, and IMO, the past six days shouldn’t count more than the past 60 years.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:31 amI get the picture of them all sitting around the big screen in Hell and just horselaughing everybody and slapping themselves on the back.
The chain reaction of evil is amazing at times.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:37 amThe university could not allow Paterno to continue to represent the school for one more day. Having Paterno coach any more games sends the twisted signal that the school cares more about football than it does about the victims of this abuse. Until yesterday, Paterno & the school seemed tone-deaf to the bigger issue here.
Paterno obviously did a lot of good for the school, but his apparent culpability in this episode is just too horrible to consider any upside. I’m sorry, I can’t cut the old man any slack on this one.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:45 amYou think the PSU board wants to see Joe carried off the field after his last home game before being forced to retire for harboring a predator? Or the certain protest, counter-protests, and potential for violence over the next three games? Joe told them to f off with his little “You can’t fire me, I quit, p.s., not for another month plus a bowl game” stunt. Having him take the field would have been a complete disaster.
Bingo. The trustees were faced with one of two possibilities. The fanbase booing Paterno and themselves turning on the team/administration, which would only further highlight the absurdity of their not firing him. Or, more likely, the team/fans rallying around Paterno with a “me against the world” mentality. But the problem in that circumstance is obvious: because the rest of the world is outraged by child rape, the Penn State community would look like it was rallying behind… child rape. And that would be a complete PR (and moral) disaster.
Ethan, it is already a disaster, but it can get much, much worse. Leaving aside, for a moment, our personal feelings on the matter, further administrative inaction or (worse) a positive defense of Paterno would make the current outcry look timid. This was a fait accompli as soon as the news broke on Saturday.
If that link from Spike proves to be real we need some public executions for all involved.
Yes! Absolutely! We (by which I guess we mean the government? the NCAA? Braves Journal?) absolutely should execute people on national television, because nothing cleanses the soul quite like the spectacle of death.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:51 amThey harbored this guy. They didn’t just ignore it. They permitted it.
After mothers complained, he was investigated in 1998 for showering with boys, and touching them.
So they forced him to retire.. a year later.
But they kept him around. They brought him to bowl games, and let him bring little boys with him.. They permitted him to use the football facilities for his ‘Troubled Kids’ program.
In 2000, he was caught by a janitor, performing oral sex on a little boy. Two years after they already knew he fondled little boys in the shower.
He was caught sodomizing an 11 year old boy in the shower, in 2002. The university already knew he was fondling boys in 1998, and performing oral sex on them in 2000.
They continue to let him use the facilities, and run the Second Mile program, for TEN MORE YEARS.
They did everything they could to protect this guy. They everything they could to protect Penn State. And they did it at the expense of his victims.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:58 amJesus fucking christ. One of my oldest friends was arrested this morning for exploitation. I am so unbelievably sad.
November 10th, 2011 at 11:22 amSooo,
how bout that Marco Scutaro?
November 10th, 2011 at 11:24 am@65 and 70
Dead on. It is like ripping and bandaid off. It stings, but you have to do it.
No one can tell me that Joe Paterno didn’t know more than they say. This guy is the most powerful person at the school and in the town. He didn’t get that way by being a cute dumb old man.
Someone with his clout could have done more. He made a mistake by not doing more. He knows that now. Sometimes mistakes have repercussions. His mistake did.
In the long run, I hope we can remember JoePa for all the good things he did.
November 10th, 2011 at 11:51 amI feel for you, Spike.
I found out, many years after the fact, that the best baseball coach I ever had went to jail for the same offense. There’s just nothing good about these stories.
November 10th, 2011 at 11:55 amThere just is no happy ending here, regardless of degree, if any, of guilt.
November 10th, 2011 at 12:02 pmThe more I read about the Penn State riot last night, the more floored I get. I am almost at a loss for words for how twisted those students were being–for how stupid, short-sighted, and uncompassionate they are to have rioted in the name of their coach, but not, of course, for the children whose victimization he ignored.
November 10th, 2011 at 1:07 pmLove Scutaro, perfect fit for the Braves. Mac, why are you not in the front office?
Penn State, worst thing ever.
November 10th, 2011 at 1:11 pmI haven’t been following as closely as it seems that many of you have. How is McQueary still on staff?
November 10th, 2011 at 1:35 pm#63 – Read the link. Anyone got an extra pitchfork? If its true, Good God someone has to pay.
November 10th, 2011 at 1:41 pmI’m not sure if this is better than what we’ve already been talking about, but today is Keith Lockhart’s 47th birthday.
November 10th, 2011 at 1:43 pmI guess today is a bad day to make a joke about Lockhart and pictures.
November 10th, 2011 at 1:49 pmWho knew rural Pennsylvania is seedier and Bangkok?
November 10th, 2011 at 2:26 pmI understand your points, but I simply don’t agree. Apparently I’m not the only one.
November 10th, 2011 at 2:31 pmGood riddance: the more we find out about Penn State the worse it looks. The Board certainly did the correct thing and one day many of the angry students will understand their rationale.
Nonetheless, Paterno’s reputation will not recover–and it probably shouldn’t. He has long been past his sell by date–his ability to coach into his 80s demonstrated ego, arrogance, lack of accountability and almost certainly a growing lack of judgement.
We will never know, but had he retired at a normal age, a number of abuses might not have occurred: a younger more alert coach would probably have been around and been able to act, when Paterno–almost Ahab like in his insistence on remaining head coach–so clearly failed.
My guess is that the narrative is just beginning to develop, but it is hard to see how Penn State will recover its reputation in the near future.
As someone involved with university administration, I feel terrible not only for the boys who suffered, but all of those who have attended Penn State. Despite this awful scandal, we should not forget how many good things take place on university campuses like Penn State everyday….
November 10th, 2011 at 2:46 pmFor those wondering how Posnanski would react, well, ugh:
http://deadspin.com/5858278/joe-posnanski-becomes-an-unlikely-paterno-apologist
November 10th, 2011 at 2:50 pmI just got a get-well card from John Schuerholz. It’s only slightly dampened by him calling me “Mark”.
November 10th, 2011 at 2:54 pmWe’re all pulling for you, Mark.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:10 pm#88
Nice, but jeez…
#85
November 10th, 2011 at 3:14 pmA civil attorney advising and/or representing victims makes a public statement criticizing some of the very people he or the victims probably intend to sue? Shocking.
Payback for all the “Li’l Jonny” cracks, most likely.
Ethan, your point about Paterno is well taken, and to some extent I agree. But he’s had a full and rewarding career, and concepts like “legacy” and “on whose terms” are sometimes subject to the Tough Sh** Rule.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:17 pm88, thank you for that brief chuckle.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:23 pm#87
That goes some way towards my question as to whether Posnanski is the right guy to write the new book. I’ll give him the break that he was in a confined space with students who are taking not Joe Paterno’s class, but the freaking Joe Paterno Class. They probably still had scratches and burn marks, and he may have feared for his safety…..
November 10th, 2011 at 3:29 pmMarkutcheon Thomason? Has a nice ring to it. I agree with #92 thanks for lightening the mood.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:35 pmPaterno isn’t Tressel. He passed the information he received to the people who were supposed to handle the situation as part of their jobs.
Meanwhile, the guy who saw a kid being raped and didn’t intervene still has his position. Thankfully, I’ve never been in that situation, but I can’t imagine not saying something on the spot. I’m pretty sure my gut reaction would be some kind of exclamation, not just walking away.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:46 pmQuestion: If the Braves are raising the payroll, then why are they interested in shedding payroll by trading Jurrjens and Prado? Is Wren trying to make a move for a high-salary player?
November 10th, 2011 at 3:46 pm#96 – Maybe Wren thinks he’s selling high or salvaging trade value.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:49 pm@88
He is just trying to avoid giving you an acknowledgment in his next book
November 10th, 2011 at 3:50 pm#95 – Paterno turned his head to a child predator and kept letting the guy hang around the campus for 12 years. He did only a small part of what he should have done. He couldve kept kids from being harmed by this clown, but he put it off and wanted to let someone else handle what he couldve easily done himself. That doesnt get you off the hook IMO.
November 10th, 2011 at 3:52 pmIf I’m in Paterno’s shoes, I pass the information to people who determine how credible the report is and possibly start an investigation. If nothing happens, I probably assume that either the grad student was exaggerating or that there’s nothing that can be done.
Let’s think about it this way. What if McQueary was lying? If Paterno did more than what he did, he’d be vilified for that instead. The first thing to do is figure out what happened, so he passed the information to people in a position to do that. It’s their responsibility to handle the situation, and they’re being brought up on charges for not doing it. I don’t want a football coach acting like a judge and jury.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:00 pmAs a parent, if I know something like that is happening to any child then I have to report that to authorities. Forget my title or what other people around me can or cant do. I, have to do that for the kids who are being harmed and to make sure no one else can be a victim.
Joe is just as guilty as the people in the administration. None of them upheld their responsibilities.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:04 pmMy sources tell me Poythress to Kentucky. Now just win on Saturday and the official “Stick it to Vandy” week is complete.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:10 pm@100, I could live with that, had there been any meaningful effort on Paterno’s part to know about the ensuing effort to find out what happened. It bears repeating – no one even bothered to learn the name of the child. Any investigation that didn’t even bother to follow up with the victim is a sham on it’s face, and Paterno either didn’t review the findings, or didn’t care that they dropped it. No excuse.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:11 pmIf he knew something like that was happening, he should have reported it. However, he just knew about a claim, so he passed the claim up to be investigated.
Now any assistant coach in the country who wants to get rid of his competition knows he just has to make up a kid touching story, and the head coach will be so afraid of being JoPa’d that his rival will be out of the way.
Advocating rash action leads to false claims which lead to actual claims being taken less seriously. The people who should have done something were the two who are charged with failure to report.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:12 pm@100 – The guy was investigated for suspicion of sexual child abuse back before he “retired” from Penn State. Please don’t tell me that you believe Joe Paterno did not have any knowledge of this when it was reported to him that the same thing was (allegedly) happening again on the friggin’ Penn State campus, in an athletic building.
There should be no equivocation: at the very least, Penn State tolerated a child molester. That seems pretty clear. As more and more comes out each day, it seems like the worst could get a whole lot worse.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:16 pm102—Congrats. Here’s hoping we only have to face him for one year.
And good luck on Saturday. I believe you’re really going to need it.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:17 pm#104 – “Now any assistant coach in the country who wants to get rid of his competition knows he just has to make up a kid touching story, and the head coach will be so afraid of being JoPa’d that his rival will be out of the way.”
Thats a load of crap. No one would make up a story like that, but even if they do you report it to the authorities and let them handle it.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:19 pm@103, yeah I see your point. The fact that the investigation hardly happened means that either they found the claim to be completely bogus, which means the grad assistant should be fired, or they were more worried about the image of the university than the safety of children. Either way, if I’m Paterno, I need to act on it.
I wonder if he’ll explain why he didn’t pursue it, or if we’ll have to wait for the Posnanski book.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:21 pmWhy are there young children in the locker room of a major college athletic center to begin with?
November 10th, 2011 at 4:23 pmI assume the alleged perv brought them there. Like, “Hey, this is where the players work out. Cool, huh? Now let me show you my penis.”
November 10th, 2011 at 4:25 pmHave the MVP, Cy Young and ROY Awards been announced yet and I just missed it? When are they announced?
November 10th, 2011 at 4:29 pmhttp://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/important_dates.jsp
November 10th, 2011 at 4:31 pm@108, Regrettably, I wouldn’t hold out much hope for Posnanski being particularly helpful in that regard.
http://www.ology.com/sports/si-writer-joe-posnanski-defends-paterno-rips-media-penn-state-class
November 10th, 2011 at 4:32 pmYour answer begs a number of obvious questions that one would think would be asked by responsible people managing a major sports program.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:33 pm@66,
Cliff,
I’m not saying Paterno shouldn’t have done more. I’m not saying he shouldn’t be fired. It’s a horrible situation. I’m just not comfortable with people taking a easy morally superior position that is not as black and white as it seems. I admit I haven’t followed the stuff that closely, but as far as I know, Paterno didn’t actually see Sandusky doing these awful things; he was told about it. He did the minimum he needed to do legally and, certainly, he should have done more but I’m sure there was a willingness to disbelieve something like that about a friend. I’m sure he was hoping it didn’t happen and it would go away. That’s not excusing him, but it’s a pretty human reaction.
There was clearly a failure up and down the line at PSU and these kids suffered and will continue to suffer. Paterno certainly has to share the responsibility. But people just seem too eager too pounce on the man.
As for what someone else said about Paterno being arrogant because he kept coaching, I certainly hope that when I’m Paterno’s age, I have the desire to do something like that. Who wants to acknowledge that he is too old to do something that has been their life? Is he supposed to voluntarily leave and go sit in a rocking chair? I agree that he has not been a particularly good coach for several years, but I don’t see that as arrogance.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:35 pmI don’t agree with the trade/demote Prado bandwagon. Sure, the guy had a sub-par year. But he did have that leg infection. His other years he hit like a great 2nd basemen and an average corner outfielder. We have a 2nd baseman who hits like a corner outfielder, so we can live with a corner outfielder who hits like a 2nd baseman.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:55 pmI’m hoping that Posnanski uses this opportunity to actually tell this story. He’s got a front-row seat, and he has access to the Paternos that no one else will be able to touch, now that Paterno’s legacy has literally melted overnight. Posnanski can certainly tend toward the maudlin, but he is a good reporter, and I just hope that he can perform the necessary mental gymnastics to see that his entire story has been pulled out from under him. He’s the writer best positioned to tell the true story of Joe Paterno’s nearly half-century reign at Penn State, which left him one of the most successful football coaches ever, but also led to a culture in which the unspeakable happened.
It’s a story that absolutely needs to be written. And I just hope he writes it.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:55 pmLet’s hold the tears for Paterno until we figure out whether the allegations in the link spike posted @63 are true, shall we? Because if they are true, Paterno is going to jail for covering up the abuse, his career and all the stuff he did for the university are all but meaningless and McQueary, though still not exactly a hero (he still should’ve broken up the assault, obviously) becomes much more of a whistleblower-type figure. There’s more to find out here, and the last person anybody should be having any sort of sympathy for is Joe Paterno. His career was pretty much over anyway. He loses precisely nothing except for his job which he had already been grossly unqualified to hold for at least the last five years.
November 10th, 2011 at 4:59 pmThe grad-assistant observing the child being anally raped in the player’s locker room was the THIRD report of Sandusky, ahem, “inappropriately touching” a child.
The third time.
Are you really going to convince yourself that Paterno didn’t hear a word about the first two? Really?
When the third one comes around, Joe needs to be on the phone with the police. No administrator, the police.
But they covered up for him the first time, and that gave him the leverage to keep going. Now, if they ratted on him, they implicated themselves.
So they let it happen. Over and over again.
November 10th, 2011 at 5:01 pmIf Happy Valley turns out to be Caligula’s Garden (as is suggested in the article linked @63), it very well may be the sickest story that ever began on the sports pages.
Just too disgusting to be true. Right? Right?
November 10th, 2011 at 5:09 pmHank, I think that there is nothing for us to gain and everything to lose for us to try to make up our minds about that rumor till we hear more. As for me, I plan on trying my damnedest to forget I even read that link.
November 10th, 2011 at 5:15 pmDOB teasing us with mentioning Mark Cuban as a potential buyer if and when on the market = just not right…
November 10th, 2011 at 5:30 pmJurrjens and Prado for Youkilis and Scutaro?
November 10th, 2011 at 5:36 pmIs there any news of when we will be on the market? I’m really ready to see the back of Liberty Media…
November 10th, 2011 at 5:38 pmDepends on the health of Jurrjens and Youk, but I think we lose in that deal. And I think Fat Melky played a better outfield than we can expect from Youkilis.
I want Arthur Blank as owner of the Braves. Can you imagine …
November 10th, 2011 at 5:38 pmJason Stark has us tied to Rollins…I’d like, but not for 5 years.
Giving him Lowe’s old deal would probably end up being an overpay, but I doubt he’d sign for less…
November 10th, 2011 at 6:06 pmStu,
I guess Cal hit up that ATM about 11:15 last night
November 10th, 2011 at 7:43 pmNah, I don’t think the Poythress family was amenable to fishy stuff like that. I think Alex just decided to go where he could get his sister a volleyball scholarship (UK or Memphis), and then his dad’s preference won out over his mom’s.
November 10th, 2011 at 7:53 pmPosnanski clears the air. IMO, still none better.
November 10th, 2011 at 7:54 pm@129
Perfect
November 10th, 2011 at 8:38 pmSame meat, different gravy.
November 10th, 2011 at 8:45 pmVol legacy Andrew Jelks is down to VU and UT. Calling coaches tonight, will announce on Saturday.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:09 pmI’ve been a fan of Paterno and have generally respected Penn State’s program. That being said,I can see no scenario where Paterno should have kept his job. I still hope things don’t come out that make things a lot worse, but I’m not holding out hope for better news either. It is unspeakably sad and horrifying.
November 10th, 2011 at 9:17 pmLarry Parrish sorta resembles Jerry Sandusky.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:04 pm@129
I get where he’s coming from, for the most part. I think it’s wrong to say Paterno has been scapegoated, though, because scapegoating implies that other more culpable parties are escaping blame. Sandusky is being charged, and the AD and president of the university are out of jobs.
Also, he was demonstrably NOT left twisting in the wind. I’m sure to Posnanski this week must seem interminable, but Paterno’s fate was officially sealed four days after the story blew up. That is an extraordinarily quick resolution, although I agree that firing him by messenger was a cowardly act.
November 10th, 2011 at 10:18 pmBleacher Report -
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/930944-2011-trade-proposal-is-jair-jurrjens-a-fit-for-the-boston-red-sox
Highlights –
The Best Case Scenario
Boston sends Carl Crawford, Jed Lowrie, Bryce Brentz and Sean Coyle, with cash, to Atlanta.
Atlanta sends Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado to Boston.
A More Realistic Trade
November 10th, 2011 at 10:59 pmBoston sends Jed Lowrie, Josh Reddick, Che-Hsuan Lin and Mike Aviles to Atlanta.
Atlanta sends Jair Jurrjens and Kris Medlen to Boston.
*Could include a “player to be named later” from Boston; possibly a lower level infield prospect such as Kolbrin Vitek, or Oscar Tejeda
At least with the second option we get to keep Prado…..
I don’t see the Bosox parting with Brentz, but he would certainly be a nice prospect to have in our system….
November 10th, 2011 at 11:19 pmWren named Medlen in a group of Atlanta’s 8 starters this year. I dont see any way that we’ll trade both Medlen and JJ right now, esp after Lowe got moved.
November 10th, 2011 at 11:22 pm@135 absolutely right.
I wonder though if they considered putting Paterno on leave pending the investigation. That way you are letting the legal process work without acting before you have complete information.
Personally, I’m terribly conflicted with McCreary. Was this a kid who saw his idol, an authority figure or at least someone close to the authority figures in his life. Was he paralyzed by the utter shock and confusion of what he saw? Should he have acted differently? I can say that I would have acted differently, but do I know it?
November 10th, 2011 at 11:24 pmI was chatting with some of the guys at overthemonster.com (Boston sb nation site) and they don’t think Boston will touch Jurrjens because of his inabiltiy to convince SABR guys that he’s good. Boston relies heavily on advanced stats.
November 11th, 2011 at 7:37 am@132
I think he picks Vandy. Tennessee will still be after him until the end.
November 11th, 2011 at 8:36 am@129, 135
Yeah, I’m not sure he understands what scapegoating means. I also find it hard to believe that someone writing a book originally intended to be a Father’s Day present – intended to be a story of a Great Leader – should lecture anyone on “complexity.” But that’s just me, I guess.
November 11th, 2011 at 8:37 am@142 – Posnanski has a pretty good record of rationally writing about complex issues and getting at the truth. Yeah, he probably had a very specific arc for his book in mind going in based on what he knew and had learned about Paterno before the scandal broke – I would have too – but I don’t doubt his ability to adjust on the fly once he has a chance to process all the facts. He’s just arguing for time to allow all the facts to come out before judgement is passed. There’s nothing wrong with that.
November 11th, 2011 at 8:50 amI can see how he’s considering it as scapegoating by the volume of media and public attention/scorn that Paterno has received. But he was also the most public figure involved.
November 11th, 2011 at 8:54 am@144 – Yes, ratio of media focus to actual involvement and fault (based on what’s currently known anyway) has been much higher for Paterno than anyone else involved in the case, and that’s a fair definition of scapegoating. His celebrity is certainly the reason for it, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s happening. And pointing out that it’s happening isn’t saying anything about what he deserves. He should have done more, he should have been fired for not doing more, he’s partially responsible for anything that happened after he failed to do more, and he’s become the media’s scapegoat. Those things don’t contradict.
November 11th, 2011 at 8:59 am145 — I think we agree.
November 11th, 2011 at 9:06 amHeavy is the head that wears the crown. Joe seemed quite willing to be the face of PSU. That means you are it for good or ill – it’s a bit late to complain now. Combine that with a fair bit of sanctimony about your program, and a massive amount of hubris about your standing relative to the crimes alleged, and you get exactly what happened. You aren’t a scapegoat if you testify that you did in fact, do what people are criticizing you for.
November 11th, 2011 at 9:18 amTen thousand media members saying Paterno fell short in his moral obligation is not scapegoating. Discussing what it means for his legacy is not scapegoating, because that’s an issue apart from assigning blame for what’s happened. Now, if there are media members saying it was all his fault, that would be scapegoating, but that’s not what I’m reading. It’s a gigantic story, it has to be addressed, and there’s not much to say about Sandusky.
November 11th, 2011 at 9:18 am…and I’m off to the bond hearing. This is going to be fun.
November 11th, 2011 at 9:48 amNew thread.
November 11th, 2011 at 10:01 am