I wish I had good news.
And I wish there was an easier way to say it. The surgeons were unable to operate on Tuesday, because scans showed the regrowth of tumors that had been removed in July. From all appearances, the remaining cancer has entered a virulent stage. It is not likely to kill me directly; instead it will decrease the effectiveness of my organs by taking away the space they need to operate. The time frame is unclear, but basically I was told that the best measure if they don’t find a treatment is months rather than years.
We’re not giving up. We are, if we can, going to talk to the doctor in Indianapolis with whom I talked last year, and see if he has any ideas. There is a protocol in trials in Philadelphia which looks promising and applicable to my case. And dammit, a lot of people (including a great-uncle of mine) have lived for a long time with cancer hanging over them. Maybe it’s just the drugs talking, but I don’t expect to go any time soon. I fully expect to celebrate when the Braves lift the 2012 World Series trophy over their heads.
That said, I am preparing, and I have talked with Stu and the Alexes. More than anything — well, other than getting to tell bill collectors to take it up with my estate — I want to make sure that this place stays open, because it’s my legacy and I’m damned proud of it. There will be some changes, but we go on. I’ll be with you in some form, I promise.
My thoughts are with you, Mac. You keep fighting. We will be here for you, pretty much spread across the world as you made it happen to bring all of us together here. You keep fighting!
October 17th, 2011 at 8:05 amMac, stay strong and dont give up. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your doctors.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:11 amYou’re in my thoughts and prayers, Mac. I sincerely wish you the best.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:11 amI’m keeping you in my thoughts and prayers, Mac. We will not lose hope.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:15 amWell ain’t that a bitch. I’m really sorry to hear about the prognosis but heartened with paragraph #2. I’ve been lurking here since the early years of Francouer, just started posting this summer, and will be here with you for the rest of the game. In the best spirit of Frediball, let’s hope it’s a game that goes well into extra innings with the good guys winning!
* And when I say “good guys” i don’t mean Ken Harrelson’s favorite team.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:17 amPrayers to you Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:23 amMan, Mac. That really stinks. I’ve been around for over a decade now and this place has been my mainstay. Along with my email, this is the only site I check every time I get on the net. You and all of the others here have made me proud to be a Braves’ fan when Francoeur, Melky, Treadway, Rocker, Agony, LOAF, Craig Wilson, Thorman, Kolb, and, Reitsma did not.
I’m going to make a commitment to keep you in my daily prayers and I hope to see you around for a long time.
LONG LIVE BRAVES JOURNAL!!!!
October 17th, 2011 at 8:29 amKeep fighting the good fight, Mac. My thoughts are with you.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:30 amI came here this morning because I (thought I) had kind of a crappy weekend and could use a little cheering up. Funny what a little perspective will do. Now I can’t wait to get home and hug my kids and kiss my wife, I should probably just call right now.
Mac, courage is a word that gets thrown around alot when people are dealing with life issues. You probably don’t feel all that courageous right about now, but know that through your struggles, you’re presence is an inspiration to us.
If I can be so selfish as to ask, please keep writing. Your legacy is your words, and you’ve done well.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:42 amI’m terribly sorry to hear this news, and I will keep you in my prayers.
I’m a long-time long-time reader of the daily recaps but infrequent poster. This really is a great site and a highlight of my morning during the season. Please let us know if there’s anything we can do (I’m in Birmingham, and I really would be happy to bring you dinner or mow your lawn or something)
October 17th, 2011 at 8:46 amHang in there Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:51 amMac, I’m looking forward to celebrating not just the ’12 world Series with you, but many more after that.
Keep the faith. We’re all pulling for you.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:03 amWhatever happens, I’m going to be here and do my best to make sure that Braves Journal remains the best community of Braves fans on the web.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:18 amAs long as there is Braves Journal, Mac will be here.
Let us know if there is anything we can do.
Also, may you beat cancer like your Crimson Tide will beat my Vols on Saturday.
Stu and Alex (x2) let me know if I can help in anyway.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:19 amMac,
October 17th, 2011 at 9:24 amSorry to hear that – you will definitely be in our thoughts & prayers. If I can echo some thoughts of others, let me encourage you to continue writing (to the extent you are able to, obviously). I appreciate what you’ve done to make this a great Braves website & fan gathering place.
Hang in there, Mac.
For a long time now, you’re the first idea that pops in my head when I hear the word Brave.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:28 amThe same sentiments as everyone else. Good thoughts go your way.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:31 amMac, stay positive. Thoughts and prayers will be with you every time I see your name on Twitter or visit the site. Keep fighting.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:33 amThanks, everybody. Still fighting here!
October 17th, 2011 at 9:36 amJonathan is right. I speak to cancer patients everyday. The best thing to do is to keep as active as possible.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:39 amMac,
Thank you for a great 19 years of friendship and I am praying for another 19 or more. Keep fighting.
As we talked about last week, AAR, Stu, myself and loads of others are for you. My family is all praying for you and as we talked about, I intend to purchase a flight to Birmingham this week and hope to see you in the next few weeks. Looking forward to a visit.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:50 amI blame the hitting coach.
Seriously though, wife and I are praying for you Mac. I may even root for Bama this year…no sorry can’t do it.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:51 amLong-time reader and silent complainer. Don’t know how I’d get through the season without having this community to relate to. Only a few more months til Bama brings home 14, Mac. Make cancer’s ass quit. RTR.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:53 amMac, I just sent a little something your way via your donation button. I’m pretty much at a loss for words. Well, I had a few, but they weren’t printable in a family environment. They’re still the first things that want to come out when my fingers hit the keyboard. As empty as these words sound from here: best wishes for a full and speedy recovery. Let us know if you need anything.
Bill
October 17th, 2011 at 9:53 amWe’re right there with you, Mac. I’m happy to see you seem plenty positive.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:56 amI’m thinking about you, Mac. Get better and we’ll celebrate health and a World Series this time next year.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:58 amGive ‘em hell, Mac. If you do end up coming to Philly, and need anything, don’t hesitate to look me up. Greerscott50@gmail.com
October 17th, 2011 at 9:59 amMac, I hope you aren’t insulted by this but please let us know if there is anything we can do from a financial perspective. I know you can defeat this.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:59 amGod bless you, Mac.
You are constantly in my thoughts and prayers. Thank you for this wonderful site and the dignity with which you have maintained it.
Roll Tide.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:01 amHey Bravesjournal,
The first thing we can all do to help Mac? Root against Tony LaRussa. One of the many things Mac & I share his a seering hatred of the Cardinals Manager. I know it’s many of our DNA to root for the National League, but I feel especially motivated to root for the Rangers (and all those ex-Braves) as a “win one for Mac!” opportunity.
Then I’m gonna ask every one of you to pull for Bama to beat LSU on Nov 5th – it’s what Mac wants so a little sports love for our fearless leader would be golden. Alex.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:02 amMedical science knows a lot and it doesn’t know a lot. Here’s hoping that the things they’re right about and the things they’re wrong about work out the right way. And hell yeah, let us know what we can do, if anything.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:08 amAlex, what is your email?
October 17th, 2011 at 10:09 amHang in there, Mac — even DOB is on your side on this one!
October 17th, 2011 at 10:10 amSmitty, just sent it to you on Facebook.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:11 amIt was a long weekend here as I slowly began to piece together what might be going on, and hoping for an an overactive imagination.
Mac, go as hard as you can, as long as you can.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:11 amLuckily, I already hate LSU and Tony LaRussa (and his face).
October 17th, 2011 at 10:13 amStu, Tony LaRussa will always have a hateable face. Amen.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:14 amWe’re praying for you, Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:17 amTexas in five.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:18 amBest of luck, Mac. You’ll not only be here for the Braves’ 2012 Championship, but I’m also looking forward to your recap of the unceremonious canning of Fredi Gonzalez in 2015.
My prayers are with you; I think that between us posters, we should have the majorities of religions covered.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:27 amThoughts and prayers are with you Mac. Can’t wait for next October
October 17th, 2011 at 10:32 amI really don’t know what to say. You’re in all of our thoughts and prayers, Mac. Keep fighting!
October 17th, 2011 at 10:35 amIf the Braves wouldn’t wait until 2015 and get rid of Fredi now, Mac could make big strides in improving his health. Just a thought, Braves!
October 17th, 2011 at 10:37 amI hope things take a much-deserved positive turn for you, Mac. I live in the Philadelphia area. If you come up here for the trials and there’s anything I can do for you, let me know.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:54 amWow, didn’t expect to hear this. Started lurking here since about the time of the Hudson trade. Been commenting kind of regularly for the past few years, although I’m afraid I don’t offer much insight. But I check this website just about every day. Stay strong, Mac. We’re all thinking about you.
October 17th, 2011 at 10:55 amDOB…
•Mac Thomason of #Braves Journal. Good dude is battling cancer. http://t.co/I2yL2HXg RT @OvOMegatron21: @ajcbraves wait who is that about? 1 hour ago
•Stay strong, Mac. Lot of folks thinking, praying and pulling for you. http://t.co/I2yL2HXg 1 hour ago
October 17th, 2011 at 10:56 amStay strong, keep fighting! best of luck to you in your battle. go braves!
October 17th, 2011 at 11:02 amMac,
October 17th, 2011 at 11:21 amI am so sorry to read this. I’ve followed your journal since its earliest years. I don’t so much comment anymore, given the overall comment volume, but I do read it daily. I think you’ve done a great job with it over the years, and I appreciate all the time you’ve put into it. I will be pulling for you to navigate some way through all of this.
Colin
October 17th, 2011 at 11:30 amThe official, “Mac Thomason” facebook page has begun.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mac-Thomason/224716647592784?v=wall
Please invite your friends and it’s only fitting we should show Mac the love on his facebook page as well.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:42 amFrom the Q&A with Chipper. Link top left.
MLB.com: General manager Frank Wren has not revealed whom he might hire to serve as his new hitting coach. Do you think Triple-A Gwinnett’s hitting coach, Jamie Dismuke, is a solid candidate?
Jones: I love Jamie. I like Jamie a lot. He’s very hands-on and positive. I know all the Minor League guys that come up love him.
When guys are struggling, they send them to the Minors to see Jamie Dismuke, so the organization must feel pretty confident that Jamie knows what he is doing. If that is the case, Jamie would be a great candidate for this job. There are a bunch of great candidates for this job. But if you want to keep it in-house, Jamie is your guy.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:43 amPrayers sent your way, Mac. Keep fighting. If the Dawgs somehow make it to the SEC title game and subsequently get destroyed by the Tide, I don’t think I’ll be too upset.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:44 amTrace, as a fellow Dawg fan, I second that.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:46 amHas Parrish actually been fired? I may have missed something.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:49 amStay strong, Mac. We’re not going anywhere
October 17th, 2011 at 11:55 amRemy, yeah, you probably couldn’t hear the champaigne bottle I uncorked here in Texas, the day it happened.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:56 amMac-
Thoughts are with you. This place is great and that’s because of you. If it is your legacy, then it’s a great one. But right now, I think I’ll just keep focusing on you being able to beat this thing.
October 17th, 2011 at 12:06 pmThanks, Alex. Thank god that experiment didn’t last more than one season.
October 17th, 2011 at 12:08 pmI’m truly sorry to read this. My thoughts are with you, Mac. Please keep fighting!
October 17th, 2011 at 12:23 pmThoughts, prayers, and best wishes from a long-time lurker who sincerely appreciates what you do here. God bless.
Thanks for everything. I’m hoping Frank Wren acquires Matt Kemp for you.
October 17th, 2011 at 12:31 pmMac, I don’t know what to say except stay strong and keep fighting. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
October 17th, 2011 at 12:35 pmGood luck Mac. Thank you for this website. I found this when I lived in Japan for high school over ten years ago. This was before streaming sport sites and up to the minute gamecasts- I came to this site every morning at my school library to find out if the Braves won.
I’ve probably been on this site at every week, if not daily, since I found it. I dont post much because everyone else says it so much better.
Keep up the fight! Go Mac!
October 17th, 2011 at 12:42 pmHere’s to the fight, Mac, and here’s to everything you do for us. If you need anything at all, just holla. We’re all on your side.
October 17th, 2011 at 1:11 pmPositive attitudes tend to help beat cancer, so I’m glad to see mac talking about being here for a long time. I don’t think I have much pull with the Man Upstairs, but what I do have, I’ll use to help you out. Keep the faith.
October 17th, 2011 at 1:17 pmIf Ban the Dan worked, maybe Ban the Can(cer) will too. You are hanging in there, Mac. Keep it going. You’ve got a lot of people with you.
October 17th, 2011 at 1:22 pmMac, You will be in our prayers. Keep up the fight and the spirit….
October 17th, 2011 at 1:45 pmI vote we start calling cancer “Kolbb”
October 17th, 2011 at 1:47 pmKeep fighting Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 1:49 pmMac,
October 17th, 2011 at 1:52 pmI’m sorry to hear this. I have appreciated this site and your efforts. I have and will pray for you. If desired I’d be happy to help out however I can spiritually (from a Christian perspective). I have no idea where you stand on that kind of thing.
Shining the Light,
Marty Winn
Thinking of you buddy. May the cancer be the ’95 Reds and your body be Mike Devereaux
October 17th, 2011 at 2:06 pmThinking of ya, Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:06 pmMay Alabama destroy everyone for the rest of the season as bad as they did Ole Miss for Mac.
Prayers are with you.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:13 pmMac, prayers and best wishes are with you. I’ve been reading here for over a decade, and I greatly appreciate what you’ve accomplished thus far. From a word count perspective, you’re probably my most read author.
I echo the fellow posters for you to keep writing as you’re able. My prayer is that it will encourage you.
This is quite a community of people we have here.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:18 pmMac,
Get well, keep fighting.
Jim Blaine
October 17th, 2011 at 2:26 pmStay strong and keep the positive attitude Mac!
October 17th, 2011 at 2:27 pmI like Craig’s final comment:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/17/bad-news-for-a-great-guy/
October 17th, 2011 at 2:30 pmMac – not much can be said at this point except you are greatly appreciated and I’m pulling for you and praying for – along with a lot of other people from around the country. Don’t hesitate to call on any of us if there’s some way we can help. I know a lot of people around here (myself included) would be honored to help out in any way possible.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:32 pmAmen, td.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:50 pmI’m in the same boat as Craig – Braves Journal brought me back to the team after years of barely paying attention thanks to Mac’s great writing and the uncommonly smart and reasonable collection of commenters he’s amassed. Thanks for all you’ve done Mac. This is a good place.
October 17th, 2011 at 2:57 pmYep, you are still the man, Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 3:05 pmKeep fighting, Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 3:20 pmI’m praying for you in the half-assed way an agnostic can. Keep fighting Mac. I hope it goes without saying we love this place and think the world of you.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:07 pmMac,
I’m putting my bets on you, pal. You’ll beat this.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:09 pmKeep fighting, Mac. Thoughts and prayers headed your way.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:10 pmSince Bravesbeat appears to no longer exist, who ended up winning (losing?) The Road from Bristol tournament Mac engineered a few years back? I’ve only seen references to it.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:12 pmI started reading Mac Thomason missives back on baseballboards in — if I remember correctly — the late 90s. I’ve read him through Boone and Veras and Lockhart and even through the Sucking Vortex of Doom Vinny Castilla. As I’ve traveled, I’ve relied on Mac to get me caught up on Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine and I’ve relied on him to keep me current on Chris Reitsma, Danny Kolb, and Kevin Gryboski. Heck, on another website, I’ve even relied on your words to stay up-to-date on the doings of the Troy King. I haven’t posted here in years, but still read nearly daily. Mac, you’ve brought me a lot of joy over the years. May you have the strength to keep doing so for many years yet to come.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:21 pmHey Mac, I don’t post often, but I’ve visited your site nearly everyday for probably the last 5 or 6 years. I burnt myself out on baseball while playing 7 days a week in high school, but I eventually found my way back to following the Braves, and you and the regulars here deserve most of the credit.
A blog of this quality is a rare thing, and you should definitely be proud of everything BravesJournal. Hell, I’m proud just to be a follower.
Stay strong Mac…
And here’s to your cancer slipping into a hibernation mode the likes which we hope to never witness with the Braves. A hibernation mode so deep and dark that even a bunting Proctologist would be powerless against it.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:23 pmSeconding everyone’s thoughts. Mac, you helped me to fall in love with the game and the Braves all over again. Thoughts and prayers for you to beat this.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:27 pmStu Scott won the final in a sort-of upset over Skip Bayless. (Scott was the #1 seed but Bayless looked unstoppable.)
October 17th, 2011 at 4:29 pmGo ‘Dores!
October 17th, 2011 at 4:35 pmI’ll be praying for you Mac.
This place made the Braves’ collapse so much more tolerable.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:40 pmMac, you have my prayers.
I have a friend who is now cancer free after going through stage 4 esophageal cancer and then getting an unexpected recurrence.
You can lick this.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:42 pmThe Road From Bristol. That was fun
October 17th, 2011 at 4:51 pmMac, I’m praying for you. My mom lived for 15 years after she was diagnosed with stage 4 melanoma the first time. I pray that you have many more to go.
October 17th, 2011 at 4:55 pmBest of luck, Mac!
October 17th, 2011 at 5:06 pmMy grandpa was supposed to live for a few months “at best” after he was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer, and he lived for years and years, so, don’t give up!
Cancer delenda est.
Peanut on Twitter:
Thoughts and prayers are with #Braves blogger Mac Thomason (@bravesjournal) who is battling cancer again.
Mac began blogging about the #Braves long before many of us had ever heard of a blog.
October 17th, 2011 at 5:07 pmOh man, the Sportscentury and Beyond about Bayless is hilarious.
“This was a mistake. After his third column, calling for the lynching of the school volleyball team, was published, three students were hospitalized. Larry Eng was sent to juvenile detention, the paper was shut down, the advisor was fired, and yet somehow Skip escaped with no punishment.”
How could that not have won?!
October 17th, 2011 at 5:09 pmThat picture of Stuart Scott is from my sister’s graduation! I was there!
October 17th, 2011 at 5:16 pm@98 – I’m so sorry.
October 17th, 2011 at 5:23 pmIt was a huge upset when Steven A. went down.
October 17th, 2011 at 5:32 pmI am truly sorry to hear this. I’ve been a long-time lurker at this site after being a frequent poster on Usenet back in the day.
Here’s a link to an article that you may find interesting. Problematic and anecdotal, yes, but something that I’ve thought I would consider if I were in a situation similar to yours.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/05/dichloroacetate_dca_and_cancer_deja_vu_a.php
October 17th, 2011 at 5:40 pmJust so you guys know, Stu, Alex R. and I have been in touch with the Braves and with a number of other baseball writers, both nationally-focused and Braves-specific, including Craig Calcaterra and Martin Gandy, both of whom wrote very nice pieces today. Many other prominent baseball writers, including David Pinto, Jonah Keri, Aaron Gleeman, and David O’Brien, have mentioned him on Twitter or their blogs. We’re hoping to get the Braves to recognize Mac’s many years of service to the team — he’s the first Braves blogger on the internet, and has done as much as anyone to build the Braves’ online community — and to help him fight. Please tweet, Facebook, and spread the word. Mac deserves it.
October 17th, 2011 at 5:56 pmReally sorry to hear about this. Stay strong buddy, nothing is impossible.
October 17th, 2011 at 6:00 pmI love this website and it’s something to be very proud of. Prayers sent.
October 17th, 2011 at 6:03 pmJust like so many others, I am a regular reader and infrequent poster who greatly appreciates the work you have done over the years writing about the Braves and maintaining this on-line community. Keep fighting, and remember that “nobody knows nothing”.
October 17th, 2011 at 6:18 pmMac,
Don’t get to check in as much as I used to, but just wanted to say that I’m thinking about you. I’ve been reading your stuff on the Braves for a decade now, which only being 26, is most of my life as a fan. Still my favorite voice in the Braves blogosphere. I love this site for your concise, informative, hilarious posts and the interesting cast of characters you’ve attracted over the years. You’re a great shit. Hang in there brother. (Roll Tide!)
October 17th, 2011 at 6:29 pmThis will lighten the mood. It is Bruce Hornsby’s son dunking. LISTEN TO THE MANDOLIN RAIN!
http://deadspin.com/5850709/bruce-hornsbys-son-has-a-rangy-dunk-arsenal
October 17th, 2011 at 6:49 pmMac,
If even Mets and Phillies fans are rooting for you, you already have a miracle.
Keep fighting. We are all rooting for you.
October 17th, 2011 at 7:03 pmMac, You are damn right and you should be proud of what you have accomplished here. Keep fighting and we all will be with you through the ups and downs.
October 17th, 2011 at 7:22 pmMac your site has been one of my favorites and one of my first daily reads for years. Thanks for all the work you have done and continue to do. Keep fighting against that cancer and know that you’re in my thoughts and prayers.
October 17th, 2011 at 7:25 pmMac, Best wishes. I love this site and you’re the biggest reason why, keep fighting.
October 17th, 2011 at 7:31 pmMac,
I’ve been lurking most every day at this site since my law school buddy Stu introduced it to me not long after the Brad Ausmus game in 2005. It’s been the best thing about the subsequent six years of Braves baseball, and I want to thank you for bringing it to us.
As a fellow Alabama alum, I second the guy above who advised “make its ass quit.” Run it over like Trent Richardson. There are a lot of us pulling for you.
October 17th, 2011 at 7:33 pmI think it was 2001 when I first found this site, and rarely a day goes by during the entire year that I don’t check in. Braves Journal is first place I go to get Mac and everyone else’s reactions to the last play, game, transaction, rumor, or news event. I recuperate with the Where Do We Go From Here peices and this place helps get me through until the Player Analysis in the new year. I share in the love of SEC football and the discontent of being a Falcons fan. Being from Georgia, I think I speak for everybody on this side of the border when I say the best two things to come out of Alabama are Henry Aaron and Mac Thomason. You should be damn proud of this.
October 17th, 2011 at 7:40 pmKeep fighting. You can beat it.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:36 pmPraying for you, Mac.
I’ve been around since about 2004, when my buddy told me about this site that was full of other passionate and knowledgeable Braves fans. I’ve been off and on as an infrequent poster, but I’ve always been here reading, nearly every day.
This site is more than just a collection of Braves fans, and we’re all here for you, friend.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:58 pmMac, also a lurker here, but wanted to pass along my well wishes to you. Best of luck, and thank you for making being a Braves fan that much more enjoyable.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:06 pmMac,
October 17th, 2011 at 9:28 pmPrayers definitely going your way from my family. I’ve been coming here for years. My (mostly dormant) blog was designed to not try and replicate what you do here, because I knew I’d never do it as well.
Mac I wish you all the best and sincerely hope you’re able to beat this and run the site for many years to come. I don’t do prayers, but I’ll be thinking about you and hoping you hear some good news soon.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:34 pmMac, another longtime lurker and lover of Braves Journal. Thanks for setting the tone with your smart and fun writing and here’s to you continuing to do so for a long time to come. Hit some three run homers and beat it.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:37 pmFor those who missed this earlier, I created a Mac Thomason community fan page today. Please like it:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mac-Thomason/224716647592784
The page will be a nice blend of support for Mac (and the donation link has been posted there, too) and posting some facts about Mac as well as people and things/shows/sports he likes.
If anyone deserves a good fan page, it’s Mac.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:57 pmI’ve never commented here before, but I have enjoyed your work.
My Dad died of this stupid disease this summer and it sucked and still does, but God has a plan regardless. This has always been a fun and interesting sight for me and I really hope you beat this thing.
Go Braves and Go you,
October 17th, 2011 at 11:02 pm-Alatair
Mac, best of luck and wishes to you. You got lots of friends you don’t know out here pulling for you. God bless.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:09 pmdear mac,
i know you;ve been blogging longer than me and i’ve been at it almost 10 years now. and if you have what it takes to keep blogging that long, you got what it takes to fight this cancer.
good luck there boy
doesn’t do any good to say it wish it was bud selig and jim crane instead of you, does it?
lisa
October 17th, 2011 at 11:31 pmBe strong. We will all be thinking about you and goddamnit just fight man. Just fight. And no matter what happens I bet you know how much you are loved.
October 17th, 2011 at 11:31 pmdear mac i hope the very much best for you <3
October 18th, 2011 at 12:34 amstay strong and keep fighting Mac!
This site was the 1st Braves site I can remember visiting once I start looking for Braves specific internet sites, and it remains one of the best. I may check out others, but this is the one I make certain to keep current with. Keep up the great work and beat this stupid disease.
October 18th, 2011 at 1:00 amWhat awful news. Here’s hoping the 2012 Braves and 2012 Mac Thomason come back strong.
October 18th, 2011 at 3:14 amDamn Mac, just horrible. Keep on fighting. Thoughts and prayers will be with you.
October 18th, 2011 at 4:37 amMac, keep pounding.
October 18th, 2011 at 8:55 amTo illustrate how great a community you have built here, Mac, I count at least 55 poster names in this thread that I recognize. How cool is that?
October 18th, 2011 at 9:22 amBest of luck to you Mac. You’ve been the most consistent Braves analyst on the internet for as long as I can remember and hope you are able to continue writing for years to come.
October 18th, 2011 at 9:46 amKeep fighting, Mac. If you figure that life is like an 162-game schedule, then we all saw this year what can happen when you fight until then end: The cancer you’re fighting against could self-destruct on its own.
Braves Journal is special to me. My Dad and I share Braves baseball, and when I’m not with my Dad to share the Braves – as has been the case over the past few years, while I’ve been in Korea – Braves Journal keeps me close to my Dad. I bring up stuff that I read here whenever my Dad and I talk on the phone, and when we talk on the phone, we always, without exception, talk Braves.
I’m not ready to think of a Braves Journal lacking your voice, though. It’s your writing and insight that makes this place special. So hang in there for yourself, and hang in there for all of us, too.
October 18th, 2011 at 10:42 amhttp://playdeeper.blogspot.com/2011/10/memorializing-living-seems-weird.html
October 18th, 2011 at 10:56 amThat’s really cool, Sam. 13 years ago on Usenet — that’s like a century in internet time!
October 18th, 2011 at 11:04 amYeah, it’s totally way-back machine stuff at this point. We’ve been at this a while (which is why Mac puts up with my shit, I suspect.)
I really did think the first conversation would be about Bret Boone, though.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:21 amMac, you’ve been a daily part of many of our lives for years; and always a good part at that. We are pulling for you. Beat this thing!
October 18th, 2011 at 12:13 pmTo create a community out of ether is truly remarkable. To create one that maintains a high level of discussion over a long period of time is reflective of its creator.
To create one where the tragedies of people I’ve never met can bring tears to my eyes is indicative of the heart of its creator.
God bless you, Mac. Kick its’ fucking ass.
October 18th, 2011 at 12:16 pmI’ve been thinking alot about you Mac, and have also shed a few tears. I’ve never met you but owe you a lot for this wonderful site and the community you’ve created here!
October 18th, 2011 at 12:51 pmMac, I’m a long time free-rider here on Braves Journal who’s never posted before. As a Braves fan in London, throughout the months of April to September I wake up each day and check the recap to find out exactly what happened the night before over in Bravesland. No place else compares to Braves Journal.
There’s people rooting for you on this side of the pond. All the best fella.
October 18th, 2011 at 2:02 pmGren, whereabouts in London? I’m sort of here for another five days.
October 18th, 2011 at 2:27 pmBeen lurking for a few years here, but wanted to wish you all the best, Mac, with your fight against cancer.
October 18th, 2011 at 3:25 pmAs I have been traveling all over the country the past many years, it’s always been reassuring to come to braves journal every day during the season and offseason. Reading this site, and the commentary provided by you, Mac, brings me back home to Georgia every day, and connects me with the team and people I love.
Know that you’ve got people all over the country, and me wherever I may be, in your corner and wishing you the best and a full recovery.
Get well.
Ben
October 18th, 2011 at 4:55 pmI’ve been reading your blog for the better part of ten years, but haven’t commented much. I remember The Road From Bristol as perhaps the greatest singular thing in my personal internet history. Basically, I just wanted to add my name to the chorus of well-wishers.
October 18th, 2011 at 5:58 pmHey Mac,
I often see/hear something happen in a Braves game that makes me think, “I wonder what Mac’s going to say about that tomorrow.” Basically, this blog rocks.
Hang tough, fight hard. I’m pulling for you.
October 18th, 2011 at 6:38 pmThe Series start tomorrow, who you all got?
My barber says Rangers in 4. Puljos decides to sign with the Braves. We trade Lowe, Pastornicky and Freeman to the Rockies for Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez. Then we send Tehran and Constanza to the Tigers for Verlander and Joaquin Benoit
October 18th, 2011 at 7:38 pmMac, you’re in my thoughts and prayers. Don’t know what else to say, except thanks for the awesome service you provide to Braves fans everywhere, and get better, dammit.
October 18th, 2011 at 7:45 pmSmitty – quit stealing Mac’s drugs.
Or, at least pass it around.
October 18th, 2011 at 7:50 pm@145 I say the Cards will win because we all hate LaRussa. The Cards will win because they want to thank Charlie Manuel for everything he has done to the Cardinals team this year.
I want the Rangers to lose because we contribute so much to their success.
October 18th, 2011 at 7:50 pmMac,
October 18th, 2011 at 8:39 pmBeen reading Braves Journal a long time, never commented before. Keep up the fight. You can overcome this, just like Braves Nation can overcome Fredi. See you in the World Series next year!
I’ve got the Cards in 6. Not because of anything logical, but because:
a) If the Rangers win, we’re going to have thousands upon thousands of articles chronicling how the Teixeira trade was ‘the turning point’ for this now majestic franchise, and how the Rangers have the Braves to thank for all of their success.
b) If the Cardinals win, we’re going to have dozens of ‘old school journalists’ that will point to the trade of Colby Rasmus being ‘the turning point’ for the Cards, and how clubhouse chemistry is so much more important than actual production. Those articles always make for a fun read.
c) If the Cardinals win, all of a sudden (at least in my eyes), Pujols doesn’t have any regrets about the season, and will leave in free agency. And that’ll be fun. I’m sorely disappointed every time a free agent-to-be signs with his home team. I feel we miss out on the unsubstantiated rumors that I enjoy so much.
d) If the Cardinals win, Philly fans will not be happy that they worked extra hard to let the eventual WS champions into the playoffs. And pissed-off Philly fans are the best kind of Philly fans.
e) If the Cards do win, they do it without Wainwright. Which doesn’t make me feel as bad about the Braves trading him.
October 18th, 2011 at 9:25 pmMac-
Wish I had something witty, relevant, uplifting, and appropriate to say. But I don’t have your talent.
Best wishes to you. I hope you beat the hell out of your cancer. I know you can.
Cheers my friend-
Scott aka Tiger224
October 18th, 2011 at 10:12 pmMac,
So sorry to hear this disappointing news. I have always enjoyed your blog. Keep up the fight, and I’ll keep praying for you.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:00 pm@149 I like your last point the most!!!
October 19th, 2011 at 3:51 amThe Cardinals are the Yankees of the National League.
I usually pull for the NL, but these are the teams I won’t pull for in most cases:
Dodgers, Mets, Phillies, Marlins, Cards and DBacks.
October 19th, 2011 at 7:28 amRooting for the Cardinals because of Lance Berkman.
HOF candidate? Probably not
Ballplayer? You bet.
Hit more home runs in games I attended (4) than any other player. (Includes 20+ games I saw of the Big Red Machine and 10 games with Ken Griffey, Jr.)
October 19th, 2011 at 8:48 am@Smitty, Agreed.
Every Braves fan SHOULD be pulling for the Texas Rangers.
October 19th, 2011 at 9:51 amFor those who missed my post on this the other day, I started a Mac Thomason community fan page on Facebook – please like it:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Mac-Thomason/224716647592784
October 19th, 2011 at 9:52 amActually, I think if Berkman can keep it up for at least two more seasons he’ll bear some HOF consideration. Six-time All-Star, four top-5 MVP finishes, and the 45th best career adjusted OPS.
Given the pre-2011 trajectory of his career, there’s a 50/50 or so chance that this was his last true HOF-type season. His offensive WAR is 54.1 — add another 10-12 and he’s right around Santo, Raines, Bench. He gets no extra points for defensive ability or position, but he’d still have to get a decent look.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:20 am158,
Having a really great WS this year would do a lot for his candidacy. Everyone loves a good narrative.
154, 156
I’m not old enough to remember the Cards’ dominance, and 2 titles in 44 years doesn’t immediately scream ‘Yanks’ to me. I guess I’ll grow to hate them.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:42 amFor KJ fanboys like me, this is good reading: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/qa-kelly-johnson-sabermetrically-savvy-fa/
DL: You were originally with the Atlanta Braves. Coming up through their system, was a specific hitting philosophy espoused, or did they mostly let guys be themselves?
KJ: There was no philosophy, that I [saw]. I felt like it was more, for them, either you can do it or you can’t.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:43 amThe Cards have 10 World Titles and 18 NL Pennants. They have won the Central eight times.
They have the second most championships in the game.
They have a huge fan base that is so indifferent to everyone, but the Cubs, that it is kind of insulting and they know it.
October 19th, 2011 at 11:51 am@160 – great interview. KJ is a smart kid. I love the honest answers. I really like him as a player but I understand why the Braves chose to let him go.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:07 pm161,
Yes, but they won 6 of those 10 titles before 1950, and another two in the 1960′s. 2011 is their 8th NL pennant since their WS win in 1964, and they’ve only won 2 WS in their 7 attempts.
They’ve got a Hall of Fame manager, a transcendent corner player with Hall of Fame credentials, and a rich history. They seem to value clubhouse chemistry and traditional scouting over statistical analysis.
As you point out, they seem to have a concern with fan apathy.
Holy crap, all of that sounds really familiar….
October 19th, 2011 at 12:11 pmI have always hated the Cardinals, from even the time when I was a kid in the 1980s. I hated John Tudor and Joaqin Andujar and Whitey Herzog. McGee, Tommy Herr…even Ozzie. Just a GUT reaction.
But my long festering hatred of the Cardinals was driven home during the final 2 days of the Braves formally blowing the wild card lead. A rather arrogant girl I am friends with on Facebook is a HUGE Cardinals fan and she was posting nasty comments about the Braves over those final days. I finally had to unsubscribe TO HER in my newsfeed but she was poking the angry bear to say the least. a LOT.
Plus, as a Georgia fan, I loved the Rangers class in drafting a paralyzed Bulldog baseball player in the draft, Johnathan Taylor. It was a gerat moment.
Definitely, GO RANGERS.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:12 pm@163, I hear their 1B is pretty good too.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:27 pmIn the 50′s and early 60′s, it was hard not to like Musial. He always came across as a class act and a transcendent ballplayer.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:34 pmHave you seen the report that Arthur Rhodes will get a ring no matter who wins because he played for both teams this year?
October 19th, 2011 at 12:43 pmGren, I am in London right now. In Chelsea for a few days.
October 19th, 2011 at 12:44 pm165,
Yup, I was thinking of Chipper and Albert as the corner players.
167,
I think the same thing happened with Bengie Molina last year, but I may be wrong.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:00 pm@169
It did happen. I think it was the first time.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pmI’m glad for Rhodes — pretty cool to be turning 42 during one’s first World Series. He’s the last of the original Bass O’Matics (my fantasy team, circa 1992), as well as a vital cog in the most exciting team I’ve ever rooted for, the ’01 M’s.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:12 pmKelly Johnson inteviewed on Fangraphs…
“You were originally with the Atlanta Braves. Coming up through their system, was a specific hitting philosophy espoused, or did they mostly let guys be themselves?”
KJ: There was no philosophy, that I [saw]. I felt like it was more, for them, either you can do it or you can’t.
So…that doesn’t sound good.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:21 pmMy bad feelings toward the Cardinals stem from: 1) TLR’s hate-ability, 2) the amount of media fellating Yadier Molina gets compared to Brian McCann, the Best Catcher in Baseball.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:29 pmSo…that doesn’t sound good.
Kelly hasn’t been with the team in a while.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:41 pm174,
Yeah, but if true, it may be indicative of an organizational shortcoming. (Lots of ifs, but you don’t want to be in a situation where there are any doubts).
Personally, Kelly was quite amicable when he left Atlanta. I’m surprised he said something like that.
October 19th, 2011 at 1:56 pm@169 – I misread as “corner of”. Sorry
October 19th, 2011 at 2:25 pm@172 – That’s not really surprising given the relative strength of the team at developing pitchers compared to hitters. If you can be better than almost everyone else in one area, it makes sense that you can just as easily be worse than a lot of other teams in another different but similar area. Why you wouldn’t make the weak area a point of focus in an attempt to improve things, I’m not sure, but it’s a pretty good system that we’ve got going anyway – develop the crap out of pitchers and trade them off for established hitters that other teams were much more adept at developing themselves. It works.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:26 pmDesert at 175,
I don’t think KJ’s comments were as bad in context as that makes them sound.
However, I have perceived that the Braves were going through a “transistion” in organizational philosophy in hitting which (ironically) ties us back to the “first undervalued asset” in Moneyball. That is, that obp and slg needed to be considered more important relatively to what ba had been considered. Kelly and Langerhans and the guys around then seemed to be the first to be allowed to be called “good prospects” when they had good obp’s and “good for position” slg’s with some higher k’s and lesser ba’s.
If my weird walk down memory lane is accurate, then I think they really did give him a “if you want to get walks like that and hit late in the count that is good to us.”
October 19th, 2011 at 2:34 pmPeteOrr at 177,
Also, the Braves have for years tended not to get players who could hit if they could not project them playing a field position to their defensive standard somewhere. Also, they emphasized the people who they thought might be good enough fielders to play the tough middle spots (C, CF, and SS) whihc furhter narrows the players in the “potential batters universe.”
October 19th, 2011 at 2:39 pmTheir theory was (and to a lessr extent, still is) that if you get a shortstop and he isn’t fast enough, you move him to 3rd; not good enough arm, move him to 2B. With centerfielders, not fast enough, move to right if he still shows the good arm, left if he doesn’t.
The lack of an organizational hitting philosophy doesn’t surprise me. The Braves are a scouting first team. They’ve been correct at identifying good, see McCann and Freeman, they’ve been correct about identifying bad, Andy Marte, they’ve been wrong and astonishingly stubborn about admitting it, Jeff Francouer. They’ve been lucky, Martin Prado. Personally I’d like for the Braves to preach patience, having a game plan and hitting to the situation but in the end its simply you can either hit or you can’t.
October 19th, 2011 at 2:45 pmMaybe I can cheer Mac up.
Pete Orr (not our poster, but Peterson Gord Orr and another middle name in there somewhere) is now a free agent.
Wouldn’t it be great to pick him up?
October 19th, 2011 at 3:57 pmGreetings from Amsterdam…
I’ll say Rangers in 6 with the Cards staff getting blasted in 4 of them.
MVP? Who else? Nelson Cruz.
I always kinda liked the Cards from the early ’70s. Part of the reason was that I actually visited St. Louis in 1973 & caught a couple Cards/Giants games. Hated that Astroturf, though.
I even liked those mid-’80s teams. In fact, I think that 1985 team was one of the great teams of the decade. They got ripped off in the WS, but that team was relentless & damn-near impossible to play.
(I mean, they used to kill the Braves. I remember an early season game that Andujar pitched where they beat us by 2 TDs & 2 PATs & I remember thinking, “God, this is really going to be a long season.”)
But, since ’96 I can’t root for them or TLR.
Also…
October 19th, 2011 at 4:33 pmMac, you’re in my thoughts bigtime. Rooting for you & wishing you all the best.
“As you point out, they seem to have a concern with fan apathy.”
That’s sure not my perception. I went to the final game of the season in St. Louis a couple of years ago when the Cards were out of the race and there were 40,000 people cheering as if it were the World Series. I don’t think you can at all compare the Cardinals fan base to the Braves; it’s not close. It was a lot of fun and I didn’t feel like I would have been in danger if I was rooting for the other team.
Other than LaRussa, I don’t understand the antipathy toward the Cards. As someone said, they have a rich history–much better than the Red Sox, for example, who benefit from so many of their fans becoming writers. It’s not as if St. Louis is like Philadelphia.
Plus, St. Louis, despite being a border state, was one of the first truly integrated teams. Read October 1964. It’s really a great organization with a great history.
If you’re going to hate a team because of a couple of fans, you wouldn’t like any team, including the Braves. Just read the AJC blog.
October 19th, 2011 at 4:35 pm@174
Thanks for the expert analysis, Sam. Following the Braves for over 25 years, of course I was completely unaware of that tidbit.
And why is it not possible to have a hitting and pitching philosophy? Is it really that difficult to have good coaches to develop both?
October 19th, 2011 at 4:39 pmUbubba –
Coolest place I went to last time –
http://andrewnicholls.com/2011/02/21/lb-whisky-bar-amsterdam-2/
This place is open REALLY late every night off Rembrandtplein. It’s just awesome at 3am.
Mix Cafe (might have a different name, but address is good
October 19th, 2011 at 4:49 pmAmstel 50, 1017 AB Amsterdam
I was in mourning about losing playoff berth. Go here and find out what bad news really is. I was happy seeing Phils and Yanks lose. Now I do not really care who wins.
October 19th, 2011 at 6:14 pm183,
I was just trying to draw some parallels between the Braves and the Cardinals. I didn’t think they had too much of an attendance issue ( as Busch is seemingly full every time I see the Cards play), but I don’t really have any true knowledge about the team’s fans. I went to a game there a few years back, and the place was packed (but, it was a Cubs game).
I’m with you on everything else. I didn’t know about the integration thing, but kudos to them.
October 19th, 2011 at 6:15 pm@182 – I remember a game, it might have been the same game, but anyway it was a Cardinals blowout in the horrible part of the 80′s. Andujar hit, if I remember corrrectly, a grand slam. And they showed him in the dugout afterward, flexing his muscle.
They used to talk about Andujar being a switch hitter, but rather than being concerned about pitcher handedness, he would claim to bat from one side for “power” and one side for “average.” Or they claimed sometimes he would just get in whichever batter’s box was closest to the dugout he was in.
I thought he was an interesting character, butopinionsvary.
October 19th, 2011 at 7:20 pm@172 Given what we have seen in the past 20 years, what KJ said is simply a confirmation on what I knew already.
October 19th, 2011 at 7:38 pmTim McCarver and Joe Buck make me miss Chip and Joe
October 19th, 2011 at 8:00 pm#188
Ahh, I see what you did there!
October 19th, 2011 at 8:45 pmMac – I have never thought more about a Braves Journal post than I did this one. When I read the news I didn’t know how to respond. It’s no better now. I guess I want you to know that you and the community you bring together have become an extension of my family. Sarah, my ever patient wife (and no baseball fan), asks about how the “Journal people” are doing.
I hope and, as much as I do it, I pray for you a long and healthy life. This family would be better for it.
October 19th, 2011 at 10:37 pmMac – I don’t imagine you need another voice from the lurker chorus to tell you how much you mean to Braves fans everywhere, but I wanted to say so anyway. I’ve been reading you for around 10 years now, and for me (since Van Wieren retired, at least) you are the voice of the Braves.
I don’t comment often, but this place you created has been where I’ve come for Braves conversation over those years. Thank you, and my thoughts/prayers are with you.
-Graham
October 19th, 2011 at 10:41 pm@184
I’m not sure what sort of in depth analysis you’re looking for. I doubt there’s much “there” there with regards to this interview. I don’t think it’s news that the Braves don’t preach a certain “hitting philosophy” per se, nor do I think that’s a terribly bad thing. I think the Braves believe that a given hitter has a given skill set and he will either be successful with that skill set or he will not. I suspect that they are close to a functional truth in that theory, personally.
Andruw Jones wasn’t Chipper Jones. He didn’t have Chipper’s eye at the plate, and no amount of “philosophy” was ever going to change that fact. Similarly, he was not Terry Pendleton, and no amount of “hit for higher average” philosophy was going to turn him into that player either. He had a skill set, with certain strengths and other weaknesses.
Martin Prado isn’t Jason Heyward, nor vice versa. Both, when executing their personal skill sets effectively, are quality players, nonetheless.
I think that’s what Johnson was getting to here, more than anything else. And again, I don’t think it’s a bad thing that the Braves don’t have a one-size-fits-all “hitting philosophy.” Sure, they have goals. “Don’t make outs” is probably part of those goals. But the idea that they need a “philosophy” – and by that we all know everyone means “Moneyball theory of hitting” – is overblown, IMHO.
Better?
October 20th, 2011 at 5:19 am“Don’t make outs” is about as good as any (other than learning the obvious “hit behind the runner”, “take until you get a strike” in the appropriate situations).
I think my gripe over the years with our “Hitting Department” is that we never could seem to get our potentially great hitters to overcome (or minimize) their fatal flaw.
Andruw and Francouer are the best examples. How is it possible to not be able to teach such good hitters to lay off the outside slider? If you got two strikes on either of those guys they might as well have headed to the dugout.
I remember a night that Andruw hit a rocket homerun to right center. His approach was perfect – kept his shoulder strong, elbow in, drove it where it was pitched. Had great hopes that the light would go on after that.
Nah.
October 20th, 2011 at 6:52 amRemember how Andruw would hit a homerun everyonce in a while that would be a low hanging curve ball. Then he would start swinging and missing at balls in the dirt and go like 0-9?
October 20th, 2011 at 7:29 am182: Andujar pitched a complete game 14-0 shutout against the Zane Smith-led Braves on May 20, 1985. (Future Braves 3B Terry Pendleton went 2 for 4 with 3 RBI and 2 doubles against Rick Camp and Craig McMurtry.)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN198505200.shtml
188: Andujar hit a grand slam against Jeff Dedmon in a 9-1 complete game blowout on May 15, 1984. (Future Braves 3B Ken Oberkfell went 2 for 3.)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SLN/SLN198405150.shtml
Boy, I really didn’t like Andujar back then.
October 20th, 2011 at 7:31 am193: “Similarly, he was not Terry Pendleton, and no amount of “hit for higher average” philosophy was going to turn him into that player either. He had a skill set, with certain strengths and other weaknesses.”
You sure TP is your best example of this? He of the .259 career BA upon becoming a Brave at age 30? If you’re alleging that TP had a “hit for higher average” ethos with the Braves, it was apparently a strength he worked to develop.
October 20th, 2011 at 7:35 amAh, the 80′s. Of course they were two different games. Thanks for the lookup.
October 20th, 2011 at 7:37 amOnce they get into the batter’s box they are going to swing at what they think they can hit no matter what the organizational philosphy is.
October 20th, 2011 at 7:42 am@197
Well, he did win a batting title
October 20th, 2011 at 8:03 amWith the second lowest average of all time, but he sure did.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:23 amTo follow up Sam, one pivotal point in, yes, Moneyball is when Billy Beane essentially rejects Sandy Alderson’s minor league program to encourage young players (Eric Chavez was specifically mentioned) to walk more. Beane, mostly as a result of his own experience, became convinced that batting eye was a talent and not a skill — as least by the time a player was 16-18 years old. So instead of making his own OBP machines, he started to draft and sign them. Andruw had loads of talent, but he was never going to be a consistent .390 OBP guy.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:31 am@202
What is the expression? “You can’t walk off the island”
October 20th, 2011 at 8:34 amBTW, by Sim Scores Andruw’s most-similar player is now… Dale Murphy. (Reggie Jackson through Age 34.)
October 20th, 2011 at 8:37 amBut I think things would start changing a little bit for the Braves. As Wren fired Parrish and highlighted that he is impressed by the Phillies’ way of not giving away at-bats, I would imagine he would like similar philosophy to be preached in the minor.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:49 am“Pete Orr (not our poster, but Peterson Gord Orr and another middle name in there somewhere) is now a free agent. Wouldn’t it be great to pick him up?”
Remember liking Orr in 2005, because of the .300 batting average and speed. First full season following the Braves.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:56 am@194 & 203 (Sam and Mac)-
Maybe you can’t encourage players to walk more, but it seems as though it would be possible to train for, say, better pitch recognition (and, though it may be a stretch, to make the leap from recognizing the pitch to laying off those you identify you can’t hit). As an example, albeit a risky one, I remember reading about how USA softball used to write numbers on the balls used for BP. Initially, nobody had much luck at reading them, but over time they improved dramatically- and you’d have to think that by doing that, they improved their batting eye somewhat. Now, for all I know the Braves are doing something like that in the minors, but I think it would be wrong to suggest that these incredibly gifted athletes can’t adapt as they come through the minors. Curious to hear what others think.
October 20th, 2011 at 9:16 amThe Yankees and Red Sox both got players (whether by design or not) who took a lot of pitchers, fouled off a lot of pitches and ran up pitch counts. They created problems for even good pitching staffs. I guess that’s what I would mean by a “hitting philosophy.” You obviously can’t make a hitter do what he isn’t capable of doing so I think a hitting coach’s job is not to remake hitters but to try to make them better at what they do best. For example, if you are a dead pull hitter, don’t try to force him to hit the other way but make sure he gets pitches he can pull with authority.
October 20th, 2011 at 9:24 amAndruw and Francouer are the best examples. How is it possible to not be able to teach such good hitters to lay off the outside slider? If you got two strikes on either of those guys they might as well have headed to the dugout.
Actually, I think this is exactly wrong. (Not trying to be short or dismissive, just clear.) As Mac references re: Beane and batting eye as a skill, Andruw and the great American French Fry were never going to learn to lay off of those breaking pitches away from them, any more than Mike Hessman was going to learn to not have that big, gaping loop in his swing, or Damon Berryhill was going to learn to run faster. Batting eye is like bat speed. You either have it or you don’t. You can’t *teach* someone to be Chipper Jones*. He just is.
Andruw and Francoeur were playing within their skill sets. They couldn’t lay off the slider away because they couldn’t see that it *was* a slider away until after they had started their swings. They saw fastball and swung, which is the action that made them great (or occasionally less than putrid, in Francouer’s case) in the first place. Because when it *was* fastball… WHAMMO!
*The most frustrating part of Heyward’s 2011 is that by all evidence to date, prior to 2011, he _is_ Chipper Jones. He has the eye. He’s got the entire skill set to be ANOTHER CHIPPER JONES. Which makes him more special, in potential, than any hitter we’ve seen since 1995.
October 20th, 2011 at 9:30 amYou sure TP is your best example of this? He of the .259 career BA upon becoming a Brave at age 30?
Adjust for era? A .260 hitter in the 80s and early 90s is more impressive that it might initially seem.
With that said, during Andruw’s final years in Atlanta there were a ton of words spent by the organization and the announcing teams detailing TP’s work with Andruw to try to turn him into a “.300 hitter.”
October 20th, 2011 at 9:37 am@208
It’s an interesting question, and the first organization that figures out how to teach pitch recognition in a repeatable fashion will have truly, unironically, found the most valuable “market inefficiency” to date.
October 20th, 2011 at 9:39 amBut I think things would start changing a little bit for the Braves. As Wren fired Parrish and highlighted that he is impressed by the Phillies’ way of not giving away at-bats, I would imagine he would like similar philosophy to be preached in the minor.I
I seriously doubt Frank Wren means, when he says “not giving away at bats” that the franchise needs to embrace OBP-uber-alles. I think the fan base is reading into that very vague, very “baseball man saying baseball cliche” statement what they want to hear.
October 20th, 2011 at 9:45 amHmmm …,
we’ve been able to teach our 16-year-olds to identify the “red dot” of the slider. Now, there’s a huge difference between a Travel Ball slider and the one thrown by, say, John Smoltz, but I think the learning process is similar.
I didn’t mind so much when Andruw and Jeffy waived at the slider with less than two strikes, but, dammit, you’ve got to change your approach when your history with two strikes is to be as easy as a Georgia Theta on Saturday night.
But you’re right, pitch recogntion at the highest levels is truly a gift. I’ve seen some film of Hank Aaron that compares his swing on an inside and an outside pitch. He is actually able to adjust his stride depending on whether the pitch was inside or outside. It is simply uncanny. Bonds wasn’t able to do that (although I think his hitting approach is textbook).
Aaron was just other-worldly at the plate.
October 20th, 2011 at 10:17 amI glanced at the walk rates for several players who joined the Yankees in mid-career. The theory being, if these fully-formed ballplayers remain suggestible to the preaching of patience, their Yankee walk rate should be higher than their pre-Yankee walk rate.
I looked at Sierra, Strawberry, O’Neill, ARod, Andrew, Teixeira, Knoblauch. I found a fairly consistent increase of about .005 to .01 difference in the quick-n-dirty OBP minus BA calculation. This translates to approximately one extra walk per 150 plate appearances. But even that small difference can be explained away by the natural tendency of older talented hitters to walk more as they age.
October 20th, 2011 at 10:22 amI’ve seen some film of Hank Aaron that compares his swing on an inside and an outside pitch. He is actually able to adjust his stride depending on whether the pitch was inside or outside. It is simply uncanny. Bonds wasn’t able to do that (although I think his hitting approach is textbook).
During the Constanza Bonanza (trademark, dammit!) when Chipper was working with Heyward in the cages, he made a public comment about Heyward only having “one swing” and how that wouldn’t work and how he had something like “five different swings” he’d use in different situations.
On the one hand, I thought, “Yeah, that’s exactly it. Help him out, Chipper!”
On the other hand I though “Dude, you do realize that the number of players in Major League history who had five different successful swings they could trot out at any given time is, like, maybe 12 players or something, right?”
October 20th, 2011 at 10:37 am@215 or yankee umps? You rarely see them called out on marginal pitch like the Braves are
October 20th, 2011 at 10:40 am@215
I wouldn’t discount the general “learning by osmosis” that might happen over the course of a season, where just being in a clubhouse of “patience” guys rubs off slightly on a hitter, either. You hate to write off “philosophy” completely, or out of magnitude of error analysis, but in the end, I think you sort of have to. In a more in depth study of your selected players above, you’d also probably need to account for role and usage. Andruw, for example, was basically a platoon player for the Yankees. How would that impact his walk rates? (Does he see the ball better out of LHP’s hand and thus walk more, for example?)
October 20th, 2011 at 10:40 amApropos of this recent conversation- which I hope goes on inside the Braves organization at even more enlightened levels of discourse than we’re seeing here- I wonder if anybody has ever done a really fundamental study on what, in terms of baseball activity, is a skill versus a talent? A skill, to me, is something that you can learn- and while it might be better to learn it young, is still ostensibly teachable and thus improvable even to mature major leaguers. Whereas a talent is just that- you’ve either got it or you don’t. That’s probably too black and white but if you could conclusively identify that, in fact, pitch recognition was a skill- and not some hardwired brain stem-type function- then you’d be able to work confidently on means of effectively teaching it.
October 20th, 2011 at 10:52 amAdjust for era? A .260 hitter in the 80s and early 90s is more impressive that it might initially seem.
Certainly true. In Pendleton’s case, however, his BA was at (within 5 points or so) or below league average 4 of the 6 full seasons prior to those two golden years with Atlanta, and right back to average or below 5 of the next 6. So on balance, 2 good, 3 decent BA years out of 15, for whatever that’s worth. His OPS, of course was generally pretty bad compared to league average
October 20th, 2011 at 10:54 amAs far as “learning” pitch recognition goes, I remember reading, when Beltran went to the Mets, how he used a special pitching machine in the cage that shot tennis balls at speeds approaching 150 MPH, with random spins. Each ball had a number on it (1-9) and each number was one of two colors (red or green I think). He would stand in the batters box as if to swing and watch the balls come in, yelling out to the coach (who was feeding the machine) what the number and it’s color was on each ball. The process was supposed to improve his batting eye and pitch recognition. This seemed really cool to me at the time. I have no clue if he kept up with it or if other players used it to any degree of success. But at least he tried.
And just to throw out some examples, I seem to remember that once he finally learned to recognize and lay off the outside slider, Sammy Sosa really took his game to the next level. (Everyone at this point is well versed in the beat-to-death “steroids don’t help your eyesight or reflexes” debate so no need for anyone to exhume it). I would also say that Jose Bautista is another example of somebody who learned (however he did it) to be more selective and is reaping benefits.
October 20th, 2011 at 2:18 pmMike M at 221,
Thank you. Thank you.
Another example. During the early years of the Royals franchise (when they were doing “The acedemy” and all sorts of innovative things), they used a dark room with a trampoline. They would have players bounce on the trampoline and try to set their hand (I remember it that way) at the level of a red light. They found that many players could do it accurately at certain heights, but not other heights. They were able to tell guys with “low ball recogniton problems” how to realize that they didn’t know where the ball was when it was low so to avoid it. It helped some players. Not that it made them able TO see it, but to be more cognizant of the fact that they couldn’t see it and adjust for that.
October 20th, 2011 at 2:34 pm@222
The Royals actually developed some really good hitters for a time in the late 90s early 00s. Though most of them went other places and became great.
Damon, Beltran, Dye (they improved him), Sweeney, Ibanez, Randa
October 20th, 2011 at 2:46 pmim very familiar with the philadelphia protocols and connected. they are high vitamin c intravenous treatments primarily for pancreatic cancer but have other applications like renal cancer, etc. they are being performed at thomas jefferson university hospital.
October 20th, 2011 at 3:24 pmSmitty @ 223,
Remember that Charlie Lau was either their team or Brett’s personal hitting coach and he coached Brett.
One thing Lau “coached” was having a two strike approach and swing to spoil pitches the other way. Brett later became more of a pull hitter and I don’t know if that was consistent with Lau teaching or not.
October 20th, 2011 at 4:04 pmMac, I’m praying for you, if anyone can get through this, it’s you. Like many, I can point to Bravesjournal as the core of how I watch and understand baseball today. I’d be a worse fan without you.
October 20th, 2011 at 4:16 pmThe Charlie Lau approach fell out of favor partly because of the emphasis on power that engulfed baseball in the Nineties.
Still think the Bonds approach is the best “accessible” swing. He wouldn’t have hit as many homeruns without the roids but he still would have been one of if not the best hitter in the game for awhile.
October 20th, 2011 at 5:20 pmBonds got on base a good bit because of the IBB. Plus his strike zone was tiny and he took up 2/3 of the plate.
October 20th, 2011 at 6:58 pmThat’s all true, Smitty, but no one (and I mean No One) could pitch to him. You simply couldn’t throw him a strike.
And he simply wouldn’t get himself out.
October 20th, 2011 at 7:13 pm226,
There was a Joe Posnanski piece (http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/07/saving-bonds.html) that asked whether Bonds was a Hall of Famer before he supposedly started using steroids. I don’t remember the exact data, but he came to the conclusion that Bonds would have been one of the top ten to play the game (with his defense, offense, and baserunning) regardless, a Willy Mays in minor, if you may.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:23 pm# 227 228
October 20th, 2011 at 8:24 pmyes and yes. Bonds simply wouldn’t offer at anything outside his strike zone and with his armored elbow he effectively took away the inside pitch. I think he got a lot of the benefit of the doubt from umpires, but when he hit it the ball flew. It is uncanny how consistently he could strike the ball with the sweet spot of the bat.
Best of luck to you, Mac. My thoughts are with you and your family.
October 20th, 2011 at 8:51 pm@229 Barry Bonds was an awesome player even before he took steroids. He just couldn’t handle the fact that McGwire and Sosa were more popular then he was, but he never realized it has more to do with his personality then his performance. Sad.
Love Bradley’s article title because it essentially tells me that I don’t need to waste my time reading it.
October 20th, 2011 at 10:52 pmPretty good read here on the Bourn trade and how it all took place.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/anatomy-of-a-baseball-trade-10202011.html
October 21st, 2011 at 12:09 amUnless you saw Mays, Mantle or Ted Williams play in their prime, Barry Bonds is the best baseball player you’ve ever seen.
October 21st, 2011 at 2:19 am@232 Another prove that Ed Wade is stupid…oh wait, there is no need for further prove. It has always been a fact.
October 21st, 2011 at 3:13 am233,
Hitters, yes. Pitchers… Pedro may be in contention.
October 21st, 2011 at 3:24 amPedro is the second best pitcher of the last 20 years. Maddux was better. Bonds was more dominant than either, as he was on the field every day.
October 21st, 2011 at 3:26 amPendleton, I seem to remember that he was as much acquired for his defense as anything else. (FWIW, I wasn’t jumping up and down when we signed him.) He could pick it, but I was never terribly scared of him as an offensive threat. He had speed, but he wasn’t one of those Cardinal blazers like Coleman, McGee or Ozzie.
That he ended up winning the batting title & MVP was as shocking then as it is now. But, of course, that was a pretty heady season. Just about anything seemed possible that year.
And oddly, Pendleton played on 5 WS teams with his club losing each time (StL ’85 & ’87, ATL ’91, ’92, ’96).
Spike,
October 21st, 2011 at 4:57 amHmmm, I’m staying at Amstel 144, so it must be down the canal from me.
Every acquisition John Schuerholz made prior to the 1991 season – Pendleton, Otis Nixon, Sid Bream, Raffy Belliard – were defensive acquisitions. The idea was that the Braves had a stable of ace-quality young pitching, and they needed to shore up the defense in order to support those pitchers and not destroy their confidence with bad defense behind them.
The offense was a bonus, and mostly unexpected. The plan was to compete by 1993 or thereabouts.
October 21st, 2011 at 6:01 am@232 – Thanks for that link. Great story. One of the things I got out of it was that the offer for Pence was Delgado and Minor. Whoa. Sometimes its the deals you don’t make.
October 21st, 2011 at 7:04 amIf that’s the Amstel River and not a canal, then yes. Up the corner from Die Kleine Komedie. It a pretty divey, gay but not flamingly so place that just happens to be open pretty much all night. Very handy. Probably not your bag, but across the river and down a bit is a terrific old guitar shop called Palm Guitars. Stuff is just piled up everywhere, but the owner has some really cool things, and is a total hoot.
October 21st, 2011 at 8:23 amOh, and I love Smokey’s on the Rembrandtplein, junky old touristy coffee shop that it is.
October 21st, 2011 at 9:07 amMac, I can’t even remember how long I’ve been reading your blog. Long enough that I think it might have had a different URL, though I couldn’t swear to that.
Terribly sorry to hear about the not-good news and hoping that things work out for you with the other treatments that are being considered.
October 21st, 2011 at 4:36 pmMac – I’ve read your blog for years, and you’ve kept me feeling connected to the Braves in a way I couldn’t imagine after I didn’t have TBS anymore. God bless and good luck. I’m praying for you.
October 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 amMac,
October 24th, 2011 at 1:40 pmhang in there man. Braves baseball can’t take another loss right now. Your blog provides us all a place to celebrate, suffer, bitch, moan and dish out sarcasm of likes not seen by most of the South.
Best to you and your family, can’t wait for your moans about how meaningless spring training is and how you can’t believe Lowe finished the 2012 season with the CYA!
Mac, I wish you the best. I’ve followed you on this blog for several years and it’s one the main reasons I still follow baseball and the Braves. Don’t lose hope.
October 25th, 2011 at 9:42 amMac,
Not a regular reader, but came over from Rany on the Royals to wish you all the best. It may be the bottom of the ninth, and you may be down by three, but you’re still at bat with runners on. Good luck and we’ve got rally caps on…
October 27th, 2011 at 2:25 pmMac,
Like PA above, I learned of your situation through your friend, Rany Jazayerli. I’m here to wish you well in your fight for more time, and will keep you and your family in my prayers. Live every day to its fullest, and know that what lies beyond our existence on this Earth is more amazing than anyone can even fathom. May God be with you.
Mike
October 28th, 2011 at 12:48 amMac,
You are in our prayers. Your recaps are the only game summary that I ever read. It’s all there, and more.
All the best.
October 28th, 2011 at 8:30 amMac,
I’ve been reading bravesjournal for over 10 years by now. Just try to keep up the good spirits just as you do with every recap when things doesn’t go our way. Keep positive and try everything you think might help you regain health. I’m damn sure that even Danny Kolb is with you in this one.
Go Mac!!!
November 1st, 2011 at 8:01 pmI have been a reader for years. I am so sorry to hear this. You are in my prayers and I wish you the best.
November 20th, 2011 at 7:10 amMac, I’m so sorry to hear this. We will keep you and your family in our prayers and send healing energy your way.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:00 am