Phillies 3, Braves 2 (10 innings)
Atlanta Braves vs. Philadelphia Phillies – Box Score – July 08, 2011 – ESPN.
A wonderful game, a real playoff atmosphere, ruined in the end by the presence of Scott Proctor, like a great meal where the dessert is phlegm pie. Proctor gave up a walkoff homer to Raul Ibanez, the second man he faced; the only surprise is that he didn’t give it up to Ryan Howard, the batter before.
After the game was long delayed by rain, they finally got started. The Braves grabbed a 1-0 lead in the second thanks largely to wildness by Roy Halladay. Chipper singled, then went to second on a wild pitch, then scored on a Freddie Freeman single. Freeman went to second on another wild pitch, but unfortunately Dan Uggla couldn’t get him to third, striking out, so Jason Heyward‘s groundout didn’t get Freeman home.
The Phillies tied it up in the bottom of the inning. Ibanez led off with a single, then went to second on a silly, “it’s the rule” balk that obviously wasn’t an attempt to fool him. Carlos Ruiz, Braves-killer, singled him to third, where with one out Ibanez scored on a sac fly.
In the fourth, Brian McCann, the best catcher in baseball, singled, then went to third on a Chipper double. (Anyone else would have scored, I’m afraid.) Freeman struck out, but Uggla hit a grounder down the third-base line for a run-scoring infield single. Unfortunately, Chipper couldn’t get to third, so again Heyward’s groundout didn’t get a run home. And in the bottom of the inning Ruiz hit a homer to tie it.
The game went on from there, the Phillies threatening but being stopped, and the Braves not doing much. They couldn’t do anything at all against the Phillies pen. In the ninth, Scott Linebrink gave up a single to Jimmy Rollins with one out but McCann threw Rollins out on a stolen base attempt. He walked the next batter, and Fredi brought in Sherrill, who got Chase Utley. Unfortunately, the pitcher’s spot was due up third, Sherrill was hit for, and he wasn’t available to pitch to Howard and Ibanez, Eric O’Flaherty and Jonny Venters also having been used. Cue Proctor, drive home safely.
I am going to try to recap this afternoon’s game roughly on time, but can’t guarantee it. It may be that I wind up doing a dual recap tomorrow afternoon.
the only surprise is that he didn’t give it up to Ryan Howard, the batter before.
Goodness knows he tried hard enough to.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:11 amFrom the last thread:
The conventional wisdom is to hold your closer on the road until you get the lead. Whether you agree with it is one thing, but don’t hold it against Fredi personally because Bobby and every manager do the same thing.
This is conventional wisdom because it is the correct strategy for extra innings on the road. Once the visiting team goes into the bottom of the ninth tied, they have to get six outs before they could possibly win. It doesn’t matter if you lose in the first set of three or lose in the second set of three. You have to get those outs (and possibly more) with the set of relievers you have available on your roster.
Given that you have to also score between a set of outs, there’s no reason to burn your best reliever (who has been overworked anyway) until you have a reason to think he’ll help you win. Fredi’s plan last night, almost certainly, was to go two innings with Proctor (unless they got the lead), and then 2-3 innings with Gearrin (unless they got the lead.) If you go more than 14 innings then you go to a starter. Kimbrel doesn’t help you unless you get the lead.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:22 amWe could have scored 10 runs in the 11th, the Phillies pen is horrible. We’ll never know because we surrendered.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:34 amProctor should be sponsored.
Instead of walking out from the pen, or even the golf cart… he could come out in a brown Ford Probe.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:34 amWhatever, man. The logic for using your closer on the road is sound, and pretty much every person ever tasked with actually managing a major league baseball team has gone with that rationale. But I’m sure you know better. You are arguing about it on the internet, after all.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:41 amIndeed, because those of us on the board are the only ones to have ever thought of it.
Managers tasked with the decision follow what others have done because they’ll receive heat if they do something differently.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:42 amMy issue isn’t necessarily that we used Scott “DFA” Proctor over Kimbrel, it’s that we sent him out there over Gearrin. Fredi should have tried to get an inning or two out of Gearrin before throwing in the towel.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:44 am@6 Your argument is similar to whether the role of closer is necessary. Honestly, we just want Fredi to just not destroy the boat. Asking him to redefine conventional wisdom is a bit too much.
@7 I agree, Gearrin should be used before Procter, but this is Bobby….wait, Fredi that we are talking about.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:54 amIf you go more than 14 innings then you go to a starter
Which would have sucked, because it almost certainly would have been JJ.
July 9th, 2011 at 11:57 amHonestly, none of this would have matter if we have someone else more decent than Procter.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:02 pmRadio reported Chipper will be put on the DL today. Hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:06 pm@11, Is he getting scoped?
EDIT: To answer my own question, yep. Good for him for sticking it out this long. There’s no way to know for sure, but I feel like 2007-2010 Chipper was quicker to sit games out if he felt uncomfortable.
EDIT 2: We called up Brandon Hicks. We’re saved!
July 9th, 2011 at 12:12 pmI don’t expect Fredi to go against conventional wisdom, but I would prefer it if he’d give the team a better chance to win.
Overall, I believe I’m just “butthurt” (right, Stu?) because the Braves lost with their worst pitcher while much better options were still available.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:13 pmI’d rather use Kimbrel, score, and then have the Phillies tie the game off of Proctor rather than not use Kimbrel and have them win outright.
The former is playing to win. The latter is playing to not lose and to avoid going against “conventional wisdom” for conventional wisdom’s sake.
Or, in the case of Fredi, because you’re an idiot incapable of doing anything that hasn’t already been laid out before you.
Fredi is an idiot. Conventional wisdom is a crutch.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:20 pm@14 Then Bobby is as big an idiot as Fredi. Alex R, justice is finally served!!!
July 9th, 2011 at 12:25 pmSince June 1st, Alex Gonzalez is hitting .167/.206/.275 with 34 strikeouts & 6 walks in 127 plate appearances.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:30 pm15- Fredi’s probably worse. I honestly don’t think Bobby would have thrown Proctor out there with Gearrin still available, even if he didn’t use Kimbrel. (Oddly, if that actually WAS a playoff game, he’d have probably used Kimbrel. Bobby used a different book for the playoffs.)
July 9th, 2011 at 12:31 pm@17 Bobby will DEFINITELY THROW Procter out there ahead of Gearrin because Procter is a freaking “veteran”. That’s BOBBY!!!!!!!!
Of course Fredi is worse. He is a poor version of Bobby. A very poor version.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:33 pmOr, in the case of Fredi, because you’re an idiot incapable of doing anything that hasn’t already been laid out before you.
Fredi is an idiot. Conventional wisdom is a crutch.
Well, we can’t all be internet gurus, I guess. This is the walking definition of circular reasoning.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:37 pmI’m baffled by this conversation. The obvious (and I do mean GLARINGLY obvious) move is to do a double-switch in the 9th, bringing in Conrad or whatever no-hit MI we have rostered at the moment for Uggla (who’d batted last the previous inning). This lets you have Sherrill to face all of the lefties that the Phillies have nicely lined up for you.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure Fredi knows how to double switch. (Honestly, I can’t remember him ever making one this year.)
July 9th, 2011 at 12:46 pm@15
I for one never considered Bobby a brilliant in-game tactician.
@19
Well if anyone here were qualified to label something as circular reasoning, it would be you.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:51 pmusing your worst reliever when you have no room for error and can lose by giving up a single run and saving your best reliever for when you can still give up a run and still maybe win is inexcusable. Its so obvious which is the correct way to use them and yet managers continue to manage to the save rule.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:52 pmThat’s a good point @20.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:52 pm@20 Bobby is a master of double switch. One lesson he forgot to teach Fredi.
July 9th, 2011 at 12:54 pm@20 Even if Fredi knows how to do double switch, he would NEVER double switch Uggla out of the game.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:03 pmI think AAG’s struggles should make us take a look at Reyes. I know he is hurt, but if he continues to play like he is, we win it all.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:06 pmCome to think of it, I can’t remember Fredi double switching but maybe once or twice all year
July 9th, 2011 at 1:10 pmManagerial fail. You have to double switch there, if only to preserve relievers in a tie game that might go deep into extra innings. That said, any of our relievers could have given up the walk off homer there. That’s baseball. Score more than 2 runs in 10 innings and it’s a moot point.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:21 pmDOB’s twitter:
Chipper via text: “I just didn’t want to play through it all summer and have something go wrong in September and have to miss playoffs.”
I think Chipper is subliminally guaranteeing a playoff birth.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:30 pm@14
I can almost guarantee that you’re wrong, and that you’d rather lose a game last night’s way than by getting a lead and then having Proctor crap all over it. Losing a 50-50 game is better than losing a lead in extra innings, for team morality’s sake, if nothing else. And maybe that’s why nobody brings in their closer until they have something to protect.
NOTE: I would have pitched Gearrin, and mravery makes a good point about the double switch.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:37 pmHey, Lugo should be hitting third! Can we end this Schafer/Gonzalez thing now?
lineup: 1. Schafer CF, 2. Gonzalez SS, 3. McCann C, 4. Freeman 1B, 5. Uggla 2B, 6. Heyward RF, 7. Lugo 3B, 8. McLouth LF, 9. HansonP
July 9th, 2011 at 1:44 pmSchafer and Gonzalez batting first and second is really dumbfounding.
July 9th, 2011 at 1:58 pmLugo, McLouth, Hanson, Schafer, AAG…
over under on Cliff Lee K’s is 10
July 9th, 2011 at 2:00 pmOver. Don’t forget about Uggla.
July 9th, 2011 at 2:16 pmDerek Jeter sure has a flair for the dramatic.
July 9th, 2011 at 2:47 pm@30, Thank God Prado comes back soon so Agon can go back to batting seventh.
July 9th, 2011 at 2:48 pmThey had to think of a double switch. There’s no way they didn’t even think of it. They’re professionals.
The conversation must have been:
Fredi: “Los, who we gonna switch out?”
July 9th, 2011 at 2:49 pmTosca: “I don’t know, Fredi. We need all these bats if we’re ever going to score..”
Fredi: “Well, Schafer.. or Gonzalez.. We don’t need those bats. We could run Lugo out there at short..”
Tosca: “Fredi. You got Schafer and Gonzalez hitting 1 and 2. Right behind the pitcher.”
I don’t like giving the Cap’n credit, but sometimes you just have to.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:00 pmIt’s kind of cool that 3000 was a HR, but I still am a little disappointed when I turn to a Braves game, and it’s all about Derek Jeter.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:03 pmOn Gameday, it looks like two of the first three balls to Schafer were actually in the strike zone.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:13 pmSo I guess Prado will play third when he comes back for awhile and the Braves won’t have to do anything about the outfield situation.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:24 pmGood start by Hanson.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:24 pmDid anyone else notice that strike 2 to Uggla there was several inches outside? He earned a walk there, no question.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:34 pmHanson looks great so far.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:40 pmDoes Schafer hurt the corner OF’rs UZR numbers? It seems like he cuts them off a lot when they are in position for the play.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:40 pmgod i hate the phillies
July 9th, 2011 at 3:56 pmWell, that sucked.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:56 pmoh sit your ass down douche
July 9th, 2011 at 3:56 pmUn-freaking-believable.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:56 pmI’m sorry, but this Fox thing of talking to players in the dugout during the game is an embarrassment. They have Jair Jurrjens on the spot while his teammate just gave up a home run to Cliff Lee.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:57 pmPitcher or not, he had the fastball timed for about 6 straight pitches. Gotta trust the changeup every once in a while.
July 9th, 2011 at 3:58 pmLee looks unhittable today.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:03 pm4IP 41 pitches 5K
July 9th, 2011 at 4:04 pmCall me crazy, but I hate it when we give up homers to pitchers and I hate the DH.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:06 pmLee is going 9. Let’s just regroup after the break.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:08 pm@54, Don’t be such a pessimist. Lugo is hitting next inning!
July 9th, 2011 at 4:10 pmDan!
July 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pmStuddla?
July 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pmUGGLA
July 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pmUggnuts
July 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pmYou forgot… Uggla?
July 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pmWow! Attaboy, Ugs!
July 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pmLee is totally unhittable today. Especially by one of the worst regulars in baseball.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:13 pmCrushed that mistake.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:14 pmI tire of this Heyward character.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:18 pmUggla is Rob Deer reincarnated this season. Late term Rob Deer.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:22 pmHow many times have we seen Agony throw his bat?
July 9th, 2011 at 4:30 pm66: I can remember at least 4 times in the past month and a half. Dude needs to fix his grip, that shit is dangerous.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pmAnyone know how the Braves can consider starting Schafer over McLouth when Prado returns (if Chipper Jones’ injury doesn’t change that)? At least McLouth can get on base.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pmSchafer is considerably better in the field. He’s pretty elite out there. McLouth, while solid in left, is a below-average CF. The difference probably isn’t enough to make Schafer worth starting, but it’s enough that the team should at least consider it.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:41 pmOr maybe consider calling up Jose Constanza from AAA since he can’t possibly be any worse.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:42 pmtrade for Quentin, put him in left. prado at third. tell schaefer and mclouth they have to fight for the CF job, loser washes McCann’s jock every day
July 9th, 2011 at 4:46 pmNICE pitch.
@71, And where does Chipper go when he’s back? Does Prado platoon SS with Agony? Actually I don’t mind that at all.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:46 pmhit and run here
July 9th, 2011 at 4:56 pmAgony can go kick rocks for all I care
July 9th, 2011 at 4:58 pmQuentin caddies for Heyward against lefties, and gives you ability to rest Chipper, Prado, Heyward, and Uggla without losing much, unlike with Conrad, lugo, or Nate.
July 9th, 2011 at 4:59 pmI wish I didn’t like the Phanatic, but he’s kinda fun.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:03 pmAnd with Chipper, Prado, Heyward and Quentin, someone’s bound to be hurt most of the time.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:04 pmAlso, the obvious. If Uggla continues to suck, it would be good to maybe not play him more than any other player on the team, and Prado is a pretty good second baseman.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:06 pm“I wish I didn’t like the Phanatic, but he’s kinda fun.”
Chief Noc-A-Homa was fun, but the Braves ditched him for a dull Mr. Met rip-off.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:06 pmI’m glad Hanson’s helping me out with my standing “Hanson is better than Jurrjens” contention.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:08 pm@79, Yeah, he’s awful.
Speaking of awful…
July 9th, 2011 at 5:11 pm“I’m glad Hanson’s helping me out with my standing “Hanson is better than Jurrjens” contention.”
Yeah, Hanson today might finally pitch more than seven innings in a game this season.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:12 pmThat was worth removing Hanson for.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:12 pmPer Rosenthal after talking with Abbot, Chippers surgery went well. He actually had a cracked kneecap and his meniscus was a mess. Recovery time 3-4 weeks.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:14 pmIs Karros seriously saying pitch around Agony to face McCann?
July 9th, 2011 at 5:15 pm@82, touché.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:16 pmEric Karros would have pitched around Alex Gonzalez to pitch to Brian McCann. He said that. That happened.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:17 pmPredictable.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:17 pm@85 @87 Earlier today, Karros also said, “Tim (McCarver) does a great job.” So there’s obviously some brain cells misfiring up there.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:19 pmWas a Brandon Hicks’ at-bat worth removing Hanson for?
July 9th, 2011 at 5:20 pmBold Prediction: Bastardo will be destroyed.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:26 pmLet’s hope we can get to Tony Bastard.
Lotta good pitching this afternoon. The Padres have a no-no thru 7 in LA (Harang & 2 relievers so far). It’s 0-0 & the Pads only have one hit themselves.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:26 pmBoy, Mac may have swung at ball four twice.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:31 pmHope Scott Proctor is unavailable today.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:31 pmI hate extra inning games so very, very much.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:34 pmfreeman’s ab was dreadful
July 9th, 2011 at 5:35 pmOf course, right now I’ll welcome extras.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:35 pm@95 – you better hope they get there now, or we lose
July 9th, 2011 at 5:37 pmFox just put up a graphic called “O’Ventribrel.” I guess they had to put in a stupid extra syllable to avoid plagiarizing Mac.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:40 pmEOF to the rescue.
Gotta go get ‘em, Braves.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:42 pmOnly have 2 more relievers I am confident in – better score some runs
July 9th, 2011 at 5:44 pmTrade for Quentin, and when Chipper returns, send Heyward to Lynchburg.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:51 pmWhy would you use Sherrill now instead of Linebrink when you have 2 right-handed batters due up? Use Sherrill against the middle of their order, Frediot.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:53 pmI have a reasonable level of confidence in every reliever except Proctor and Gearrin, and I suspect I will gain confidence in Gearrin the more I see him.
The only guy that makes me flinch when I hear his name called is Proctor.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:55 pmSo close…
July 9th, 2011 at 5:58 pmBraves will get out of this.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:59 pmOh boy…
July 9th, 2011 at 5:59 pmI reiterate my hatred of extra innings.
July 9th, 2011 at 5:59 pmLol. Please, Phillies, listen to the Fox announcers. Risk the out on the steal to avoid the force. He “doesn’t understand this one.” lol. I only wish the Phillies were that dumb.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:00 pmThe runner on first base means nothing and Karros wants him to risk getting thrown out.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:01 pm@109, 110, Glad I’m not the only one who thinks that’s totally inane.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:02 pmHard to believe this guy used to be a good closer in the AL East.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pmYeahhhh.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pmI knew they’d get out of it. Go Braves.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pmBut if he steals do you risk throwing it into center field and losing the game?
July 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pmWHEW (for now).
July 9th, 2011 at 6:03 pmwhould Mac even attempt a throw with winning runner on third?
July 9th, 2011 at 6:06 pmHinske on with no outs. This game is over.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:08 pm@117, I don’t think it’s worth finding out if you’re the Phillies and the winning run is 90 ft away.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:08 pmLOLHOWARD
July 9th, 2011 at 6:10 pmNICE!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pmHoly crap, Alex did something!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pmAgony takes advantage of his second chance!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pmLOLRyanHoward
July 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pmI knew it. When smallball is actually the right approach, the Braves are in good shape.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pmYes!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:11 pmYes!!!!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:12 pmAlright, let’s hang onto this.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:12 pmB-Mac!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pmEven better!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pmThank God for Brian McCann.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pmBest catcher in baseball!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pmAwesome
July 9th, 2011 at 6:16 pmKnew that was coming. Whoo-hoo.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:17 pmResilience!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:17 pmYou heard it from Karros, the “best hitting catcher in baseball”!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:17 pmOkay, now they can stop scoring so Kimbrel still qualifies for the save
.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:19 pmWell apparently Karros isn’t a total vegetable then, close though.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:20 pmTerrific win.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:27 pmBravo.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:28 pm@139, you can say that again. Lose today and they run the risk of being 5.5 back at the break. Now they can be no more than 3.5 back at the break. Sweeps are definitely critical, either giving or receiving.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:29 pmvery nice win…thanks Mr. Howard! Now win tomorrow
July 9th, 2011 at 6:29 pmThink these teams are pretty evenly matched?
Get us a hitter, and we’re head and shoulders above them.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:31 pmThese kinds of nut-cutting, playoff-vibe games are a blast to watch, especially when the good guys win.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:33 pmFrankHoward swings like a washer woman amd fields like one too. LOL No error on Howard
July 9th, 2011 at 6:37 pmThat’s the reason why you hold Kimbrel until you get the lead on the road in extra inning games.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:37 pmGod, I can’t believe he used Kimbrel with a 3 run lead! Fredi is such an idiot!!!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:39 pm@147 Should have gone with Procter!!!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:43 pm146: Sarcasm? Cause Gearrin or Linebrink could’ve pitched that 11th pretty easily, and George Sherrill came this close to throwing the game away. Should probably have been Craig out there to start the 10th, and it certainly should have been him after the walk to Rollins.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:45 pm@146- If we used Kimbrel instead of Proctor a night ago, maybe the next inning (that didn’t happen) we’d have had a walk, a bunt, a single, and a homerun. Then Proctor could have pitched with a 3 run lead, and a solo homerun wouldn’t have hurt him.
July 9th, 2011 at 6:53 pmRecapped!
July 9th, 2011 at 6:56 pmSherrill should not have been in that game. Linebrink should have.
Regardless of who came in, Fredi should have double switched Conrad in. Conrad would have led off the next inning where Hinske did, and Sherrill (Linebrink) would have come in in the 7 hole.
As it was, once Sherrill got in 2-out trouble, Fredi couldn’t pull him because he’d waste a pitcher for 1 out. So he had to live or die with Sherrill on the hill, bases loaded, and a righty at the plate.
Still could have double-switched THERE, but if you’re too dumb at the beginning of the inning, you’re too dumb in the middle.
ALSO, having Conrad lead off, if he worked Hinske’s walk (obviously no guarantee) you don’t have to burn Ramirez as a pinch runner for Hinske. Conrad would walk and run for himself.
But Mayberry grounded out and Brian McCann hit a towering home run so “Fredi look smart in blue hat weee!”
July 9th, 2011 at 7:00 pm