06 Jul
Fredi, Immortal game thread: July 6, Rockies at Braves
Fredi does Fredi things, but the Braves keep winning. At what point do we reach the “we need the eggs” line?
Fredi does Fredi things, but the Braves keep winning. At what point do we reach the “we need the eggs” line?
Critical Hipster Mass!
July 6th, 2011 at 2:09 pmSchafer 8 Gonzalez 6 McCann 2 Chipper 5 Freeman 3 Hinske 9 Uggla 4 McLouth 7 Jurrjens 1
What’s wrong with Heyward now?
July 6th, 2011 at 2:16 pmI’ve never liked that song before but that video is a lot of fun.
July 6th, 2011 at 2:35 pmI don’t understand the “logic” behind AGony hitting in the 2 hole.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:18 pmAnd didn’t Uggla suck a little bit less hitting 2nd?
I guess it goes to show you that lineups dont change the outcome that much. I hate this lineup, but its worked.
Chipper is better hitting 3rd.
Bmac is better hitting 4th.
Uggla is better in the 4th or 7th spot.
Schafer sucks leading off.
AAG sucks everywhere.
Just throw darts and hope for good pitching.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:27 pmI think MRSA is trying to “get Gonzalez going” by getting some fastballs “to hit” because “Schafer’s going to be on base” ahead of him.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:31 pmI don’t get this whole ‘he’s better at batting at X spot in the lineup’ thing. If a player sucks, then 50 abs’ of ‘evidence’ in a certain lineup spot isn’t going to change the fact that they still suck.
The only real lineup optimization is when you bat your better players early, and your bad players late.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:32 pmSeeing the Frediot’s lineups on a daily basis is like looking at a tinker-toy abominations of a 3 year old.
There’s no way to explain AAG hitting second that isn’t absurd.
Of course, if JJ holds serve with Doc on the race to the starting AS gig, tonight’s lineup won’t really matter.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:35 pmPastornicky hit for the cycle last night and is now up to a .767 ops. What’s also pretty great about him is that he’s only struck out in 10% of his at-bats.
Good defense and all, I’ll be happy if we let Alex walk next year. His plate approach is infuriating at times. He’s down to a .625 ops and has lost quite a bit of his value of late (down to a 1 WAR overall).
July 6th, 2011 at 3:46 pmAAG can pick it, though.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:52 pmWith this pitching, I’ll take his D. He is what he is.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:56 pmIsn’t there anyone out there who can pick it AND hit it?
I mean, besides Jose Reyes?
July 6th, 2011 at 4:01 pmImagining a Feliz/Venters/Kimbrel bullpen right now… along with Andrus at short…
Well, the principles behind the Teixeira deal and the McGriff/Hudson deal are the same. You win some, you lose some.
The fact that Teixeira is the 4th(!) highest paid player in the game does not cease to baffle me. That, and the fact that Joe Mauer is the 5th highest paid player. I understand that if you’re the Twins, you have to make that deal or the fan base revolts; but, it seems so bad just one year later. I really think that Mauer’s a great example of why mid-market teams shouldn’t dole out any contracts longer than 4 or 5 years, which is something that the Braves are really good at. The Twins are in major trouble for the next decade if Mauer can’t come back.
I was clamoring for Werth over the offseason, but that Dan Uggla deal looks downright great compared to his.
13,
Troy T. of the Rockies. But, it’s quite apparent that there are not very many good SS’s in the league right now.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:02 pmIf you had Feliz, Venters would probably never have emerged. As for Andrus, they thought Yunel was better.
The Mauer deal only seems bad in retrospect. There was no reason to expect him to get hurt.
BTW,how is the Braves attendence relative to last year? My understanding is that normally it picks up after school but I am still seeing a lot of small crowds. I understand the problems with access to the stadium and so forth, but I would have thought a good team would draw more fans.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:10 pmThe Braves are currently 15th in attendance with an average of about 28,000. Last year, they were 13th with an average of about 30,000.
Checked and discovered that it would be the first year since ’04 that attendance averaged below 30,000 and only the 2nd time in Turner Field history. So your hunch is right, Marc S., though since there are more summertime games to come that average may yet improve.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:14 pm#13
When you’re talking about the Yankees, it doesn’t have to make any sense, relative to the rest of the clubs.
With YES Network, they have a license to print money & “overpay” players for as long as MLB lets them. They’ve spent scads of cash on people who didn’t contribute at all (Kei Igawa, Drew Henson, any number of middle relievers); so it shouldn’t be surprising that they overpaid on the premium signings (Sabathia, Teixeira, Giambi, Mussina, etc.)
Throw in the circumstances of the Teixeira signing—they stole him from the Sawx at the 11th hour—and it makes perfect sense in YankeeLand.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:19 pm@12 – J.J. Hardy. I think a deal for him is worth exploring. But it’s not very likely.
Oh, and Yunel Escobar. But that’s beside the point.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:21 pm14,
Mauer was one month away from his 27th birthday. Paying a catcher, coming off a career season, for his age 33-34-35 seasons sounds like an awful deal to me. Especially when that Catcher has already had surgery on his knees (2004). He also got unheard of money for a small-market club.
The Braves put Venters in their bullpen after a fantastic 2010 spring. That would have had nothing to do with keeping Feliz; Venters would simply have been another really good arm coming out. He earned the set-up role last year, and would have earned it even with Feliz around.
13,
Very true and valid points. I’m still surprised that four teams (Nats, Orioles, Sox, and Yanks, I believe) were willing to go that expensive on him.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:26 pmI’d be surprised if AAG was not the starting SS for the Braves in 2012. McLouth’s gone and Kawakami’s off the books, so that’s your budget for picking up a CF. Pastonicky will need to play lights out in AAA the second half of this year and storm Spring Training to be considered ahead of another year of AAG.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:27 pmOn the last thread, someone said Heyward does’t need a platoon partner
.164/.271/.295/.567 this year against LH pitching.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:27 pm.226/.335/.372/.706 career against LH pitching.
I would like to see us in on Hardy if the Os can’t extend him. If they are becoming the slightest bit impatient with their young pitching, we should exploit the situation.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:28 pm20,
We probably should let that ‘career’ pan out a little before we make judgments. And he had a .755 OPS against Lefties his rookie season, at age 20. I venture that number is going to go up to at least .850 in his best seasons, but he’s not going to learn how to hit lefties sitting on the bench. Developmentally, he does not need a platoon partner.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:33 pm@22,
Optimizing Heyward’s developmental path isn’t going to help much against Cole Hamels and Cliff Lee in the 2011 NLCS. Pennants fly forever.
July 6th, 2011 at 4:39 pmJuan Pierre speculation via Peanut. Mac’s gotta love it!
July 6th, 2011 at 4:53 pmhttp://mlb.mlblogs.com/2011/07/06/white-sox-showing-interest-in-atlantas-pitchers/
If the Sox took back Lowe (who pitched last night)… Pierre sucks, but he sucks less than Schafer right now.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:02 pmhttp://www.crawfishboxes.com/2011/7/6/2262575/astros-trade-scenarios-hunter-pence-to-the-braves
Interesting trade talk from Houston.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:06 pm@13
Nothing short of whiskey can make the Uggla deal look too good right this moment.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:24 pmEven if some of these “proposals” seem crazier than others, it’s nice to have a pretty deep well of trading options.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:24 pmJuan Pierre‽ Please, no.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:37 pm#13 – you do realize that Andrus cant hit either, right?
July 6th, 2011 at 5:53 pm#30 – Don’t confuse the “god we got so screwed by that Tiexiera deal” mojo by bringing up bothersome facts.
July 6th, 2011 at 5:58 pmInteresting discussion in some of the “chats” today. Would you trade Jurrjens for Stubbs?
July 6th, 2011 at 6:01 pm32 — No.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:09 pmcsg- No. I don’t see Stubb’s upside. He’s Nate McLouth w/better defense right now, and he wasn’t much more than that in the minors. I’d trade JJ for Jay Bruce though.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:11 pm@14, it has been hotter than seven hells this summer in Atlanta. Started getting into the 90s in late May, and just hasn’t stopped. We’ve also had many savage thunderstorms too.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:12 pm@23 exactly.
@22 I’m just saying “Heyward holds his own against lefties” shouldn’t keep us from looking at Quentin (or another righty slugger) as a legit option. He hasn’t, in 2011, been worth a damn against lefties.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:14 pm24 — That makes it sound like the Braves are planning to keep Schafer in CF when Prado returns barring a trade.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:18 pmIs it just me or is it hilarious that AAG’s most similar player is the other Alex Gonzalez?
July 6th, 2011 at 6:18 pmIve always despised Juan Pierre.
Lester is joining Bucholz on the DL and Lackey has been brutal…I wonder how much it would take to get Theo to give us Ellsbury?
July 6th, 2011 at 6:20 pmWoo!!!
July 6th, 2011 at 6:21 pmSomething else i’ve noticed this year and last year that makes them different than the previous 3-4 years, when we get into the late innings with a lead I don’t find myself wondering how we are going to blow the game
July 6th, 2011 at 6:23 pmFredi Gonzalez… secret genius?
July 6th, 2011 at 6:23 pm@39-I’d let them say no to Derek Lowe first and go from there.
Boomski!
July 6th, 2011 at 6:24 pmWell this is nice
July 6th, 2011 at 6:24 pmHoly crap, runs.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:24 pm@35, I always thought South Florida was the hottest place in the country and I was really nervous about moving here. I still can’t wrap my head around the fact that Atlanta has been routinely 10-15 degrees hotter all year.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:24 pmHomer here for the cycle with the 1st 4 hitters of the game?
July 6th, 2011 at 6:25 pmOh, that looks brutal.
Paging Martin Prado…
July 6th, 2011 at 6:26 pmmichael bourn!
July 6th, 2011 at 6:27 pm“This is getting the job done here,” Mr. Jordan? Funny, I thought the triple-single-double sequence got things done much better.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:28 pmSpontaneous entices intimacy!
July 6th, 2011 at 6:31 pmDOB reporting that there is a fan group at the field called “Freeman’s Seamen”? That is great
July 6th, 2011 at 6:32 pmWould Houston do a Bourn for Randall Delgado/Arodys Vizcaino and Nate McLouth trade?
July 6th, 2011 at 6:32 pmLove me some Hinske.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:33 pmWow, everyone hit the ball hard that inning.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:34 pmWish Chip Caray was doing this game. “Cook Aaron’s goose.”
July 6th, 2011 at 6:34 pmHow ’bout a blowout tonight? Cook ain’t exactly fooling ‘em.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:35 pm@50 – It’s actually Gant in the booth tonight. But he and Jordan are virtually the same broadcaster (except I think Gant can actually say the letter ‘R’), and both are terrible for the exact same reasons.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:35 pmSchafer is very solid defensively, just wish his bat could keep him here.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:37 pmreverse mojo works for JS & AG.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:38 pm#33-34, I was thinking the same. Both chats said Cincy would turn that offer down. I was surprised.
July 6th, 2011 at 6:40 pm26,
McLouth, Mike Minor, Tyler Pastornicky and Edward Salcedo for Hunter Pence
LOL. Why not Jurrjens, Hanson, Beachy and Heyward for Hunter Pence?
July 6th, 2011 at 7:01 pmStuck with Phillies/Marlins here and it’s looking like a blowout. I guess if we just win every day from here on out then maybe we’ll make up 3 or 4 games.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:03 pmCHIPPER
July 6th, 2011 at 7:04 pmChippah!
#444.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:04 pmCHIPPA..OPPO!
July 6th, 2011 at 7:04 pmChippa! There’s the HR, I was just a little early in calling for it.
EDIT: And now Freeman slices one the other way. Joe is gonna have to change his pants with all this opposite field hitting.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:05 pmDon’t stop now, boys.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:06 pmSo I have been out of town for about a week and you guys seem to be holding the the fort down. Good work
July 6th, 2011 at 7:11 pmJoe, it’s not worth going nuts over whether or not a play is scored a hit or an error.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:20 pmSchaffer thinks he should be lead off man. Has he adjusted to speed of ML game?
July 6th, 2011 at 7:22 pmGant: “Helton’s splits have always been just as good on the road as at Coors field.”
Career home: .355/.452/.623/1.074
Career away: .292/.392/.481/.873
Helton’s been a very good (great?) player no matter where he’s swinging, but don’t try to say he (or anybody) is just as good away from CO.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:32 pmGant clarified he was only talking about this year.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:52 pmDoesn’t look like JJ will go more than 6 tonight.
July 6th, 2011 at 7:56 pmThanks, Rockies!
July 6th, 2011 at 8:01 pmAh, thanks csg. Didn’t catch that. He’s still boring, monotone, and uninsightful.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:06 pmUggla reaches 90% of the Mendoza line for the first time since June 14.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:10 pmSuccess
July 6th, 2011 at 8:18 pmFredi struck again. Why in the world did he go Lefty-Lefty there with Heyward??? I’m watching the game on the Rockies Channel, and their announcers were stunned.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:19 pm@79 Who else? Ross would not pinch hit til bottom of ninth.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:24 pmThe real question is…..in a 7-1 game does Fredi still use Venters for the 8th?
July 6th, 2011 at 8:24 pm80, how about anyone but Heyward? We have two righties and a switch hitter on our bench, not counting Ross.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:29 pmThat assumes Linebrink give up no runs
July 6th, 2011 at 8:30 pm@83….a huge assumption
July 6th, 2011 at 8:32 pmI swear, if Linebrink serves one up to Helton and we use Venters/Kimbrel to close the game, I might break something.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:32 pmHas Conrad got a hit against Lefties? Lugo? Ramirez?
July 6th, 2011 at 8:32 pmScott Linebrink is not going to win a Gold Glove this year I guess.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:32 pmHeyward blows.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:36 pm@84 To assume would make an
July 6th, 2011 at 8:36 pmass of u & me. Good thing Fredi does not smoke with full pack Linebrink
You know, it wasn’t that long ago relief pitchers routinely threw 2-3 innings per outing, and would pitch a hundred-plus innings per season. Now managers that use relief pitchers for 80 innings a year are abusing them?
And the ‘baby all pitchers’ philosophy is permeating the fans’ mindsets, not just the managers.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:37 pmDan, there was a time, not long ago, that starting pitchers threw 300 innings a year.
You can’t manage your way to the ’82 pennant in 2011.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:40 pmScott Proctor, Oscar Villarreal, and Peter Moylan think you’re wrong, Dan.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:42 pmFLA has come back to tie the Phils 6-6
July 6th, 2011 at 8:42 pmDan, they didn’t pitch 80 games per season while throwing those 100 innings. They also tended to hurt their arms pretty frequently.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:42 pmIt’s the appearances, not the innings, that wear on relievers, right?
July 6th, 2011 at 8:45 pmI used to do certain things one way, but now I do some of them in a different way.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:45 pmGagne, Nathan, Wagner, Wilson, and Joba also agree.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:46 pmI smell some Proctology coming in the 9th! 6 runs is Proctor proof, right?
EDIT: On second thought, I take it all back. It’s not good to tempt fate.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:46 pmAny updates on Moylan or Medlen lately?
July 6th, 2011 at 8:48 pm30,31
Andrus has 2.2 WAR compared with Gonzalez’s .9 WAR this season. He’s provided 8.1 WAR in his three years with the Rangers, making him the eight(!) best SS in the majors during that time period. He has a 90 wRC+ this year, compared with Gonzalez’s 72 wRC+. That 90 wRC+ places him 14th among all ML shortstops this year.
But, as you said, don’t let facts get in the way of your argument.
Sam,
It’s not that your opinions are wrong (they are), it’s that you have to act like a complete jerk when you present them. I bet you don’t have many friends, or you may have developed some social skills.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:53 pmI wouldn’t say 80 innings is necessarily abuse, but Venters is on pace for 100 innings, in about 90 appearances. The guys back in the day that threw 100+ innings out of the pen probably did so in closer to 50 or 60 appearances. Which would seem to be a lot less stressful on the arm than spreading it out over 90 apps. Plus JV has been noticeably less sharp lately.
EDIT: Or what people above have said.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:53 pmUggla looks pretty good, right??
July 6th, 2011 at 8:54 pmMaybe Uggla really has decided it’s time to stop sucking.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:55 pmI guess he really is better now…
July 6th, 2011 at 8:55 pmRamirez can hit, I guess. No pressure on Uggla, but it counts.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:55 pmYou know what Mac says about hope…
But it sure would be nice if he could keep it up.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:57 pmGood job Uggla.
You only need another half a season of this to redeem yourself.
July 6th, 2011 at 8:59 pmUGGLA SMASH
July 6th, 2011 at 8:59 pm4 hit game for Schafer
July 6th, 2011 at 9:01 pmFour hits for Schafer tonight. Won’t save his starting job when Prado’s back, but maybe it’ll keep him from returning to Gwinnett.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:02 pmSuccess is 4 for 5, Should we disregard that as an outier?
July 6th, 2011 at 9:02 pmHis OPS is still .633; I’d say yes…
July 6th, 2011 at 9:04 pmLooks like we are going with the Bizarro O’Ventbrel tonight
July 6th, 2011 at 9:04 pmIt’s time for Proctology.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:06 pmHow can Charlie Blackmon’s nickname not be “Mars”?
Ah, the joys of winning in a rout. I could get used to this.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:07 pmSo JJ will be the first Brave to reach 12 wins before the ASB since Russ Ortiz in 2003, and he won 21. (Though he had the best offense in the league behind him.)
July 6th, 2011 at 9:08 pmI choose to believe that Proctor’s appearance to close out a 9-1 game (instead of Gearrin) means that Fredi has realized Proctor’s true calling. Of course, I’m probably wrong, but a guy can dream, right?
July 6th, 2011 at 9:16 pmAnd Bethany ends tonight a further three miles down the road.
You go B!
July 6th, 2011 at 9:28 pm117 — If Proctor gets sent down once Martinez is eligible to come back up then yes, otherwise we just have to hope it’s close enough.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:31 pmThank you, Mr. Stanton! Three games out.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:33 pmMarlins defeat Phillies.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:36 pmRecapped.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:36 pmThat was a great win, but, more importantly, I have deciced to legally change my name to Bizarro O’Ventbrel. Thanks, Catz.
July 6th, 2011 at 9:56 pm