29 Jul
I have a bad feeling about this one too game thread: July 29, Braves at Marlins
Never count out the Marlins. Supposed to rain, apparently.
I think I’m going to be unavailable tonight and the recap will be late. Sorry, talk amongst yourselves.
Sex.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:14 pmSpeaking of which, with the Lee acquisition, we’re f—ed.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:19 pmThat’s the best start to a thread I’ve ever seen.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pmBrilliant trade analysis from last thread:
The Phils may have dealt prospects that were highly-rated going in to the season, but most of those guys have taken steps back or at least not huge steps forward. Carrasco has struggled and didn’t have top-of-the-rotation upside, anyways, Marson seems completely out of place in that package, Donald has struggled a lot this year and wasn’t an elite hitter or defender (not to mention always old for his age), and Knapp is in Low-A. Knapp is actually the only part of this that I really like for the Indians; he could be the Neftali Feliz of the deal. But as for the rest…. a back-up C, a mid-to-back-of-the-rotation starter, and a SS with a questionable bat and questionable glove. I just don’t see the upside.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:23 pmCould the Indians see something in Cliff Lee (some sort of skills slippage) that Phillies scouts don’t see?
July 29th, 2009 at 2:29 pmNot sure how this will copy and paste, but from a real time Steve Phillips chat on the “.com”:
Donald (Mo):
Steve,If the Braves could get another bat would you then consider them as a real contender?
Steve Phillips:
July 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm(3:27 PM)
The Braves have great starting pitching depth and some options in the bullpen, as long as the relievers stay healthy. Offense has been an issue. Though they’ve been better since the all-star break. They desperately need Chipper Jones and Garrett Anderson to play as much as possible and stay healthy. The Braves are an interesting thing, but I’m not sure they have enough speed or power to consistently score to support the pitching.
I hate when Steve Phillips is right.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pmThey are indeed “an interesting thing.”
July 29th, 2009 at 2:32 pmThanks Steve Phillips.
Given the Mets dynasty that you built…your perspective on the Braves is incredibly powerful…and Frank Wren should take notice ASAP.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pmGood thing it happens so rarely, then.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:33 pmThe Braves were not catching Philly. They blew that chance with those two horrible loses in Washington.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:37 pmYeah, it’s been dark and cloudy all day here since noon. I doubt the game will get played in its entirety.
The radio and TV stations down here are all giddy because “they stole a game from the most dominant closer around”. At least they gave Soriano his props.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pmI really hate the Marlins. I mean, if I were at a Marlins-Braves game at Turner Field, I wouldn’t boo half the lineup like I might with the Phillies or Mets, but the Marlins are just so annoying. Somebody said it in the last thread, but that was a classic Braves loss in whatever the hell that stadium is called now. Constant dread hanging over the game from the outset. Missed chances here and there. We take a lead despite not playing great…dread still pervasive. We blow the lead late.
I hate that team and I hate that stadium. It’s a freaking mausoleum. I’ve never been there for a baseball game (did go their one time for a football game, which it is much better suited for), but on TV it feels like they’re playing the game in a freaking parking garage. For all the hate for Coors Field and Miller Park, I would 10 times rather play a game in those stadiums than at Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphin/Landshark? Stadium. It’s not really a dump per se, but it is not suited for baseball at all, and winds up being an 80,000 seat stadium with 10,000 people in it.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:54 pmFrom Eric Gregg’s not a good empire strike zone in the playoffs in ’97 to Dan Kolb blowing another one Tim Hudson’s games. It always happens against the Marlins in somewhere outside Miami in Dolphins, Joe Robbie, Land Shark Stadium.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:59 pmActually that wasn’t Dan Kolb that blew the Hudson gem from 2 years ago…that was Bobby leaving Hudson in WAY too long…and then bringing in Bob Wickman with a bases-loaded, no outs situation. If my memory serves me correctly, that is.
Can you believe it has been 4 years since the Braves had the Danny Kolb Experience?
I hate the Marlins. But to win 2 WS as a ’92 expansion team already…they have my respect.
And the Fish win it.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:06 pm13
I’ve been to several Braves-Marlins games down here at it is AWFUL. I usually sit by the Braves bullpen and Eddie Perez said one time “Did they open the gates already?? Why is it so empty?”
On the other hand, I’ve been to ONE game at Turner Field. It was great though it was a Friday night and it was full of drunk college kids.
14
July 29th, 2009 at 3:09 pmI went to a game down here when Wickman blew a 3-0 Hudson gem. I was so pissed! I also went to that one game when the Marlins beat us with a Wickman pitch that got by McCann with the game-winning run on 3rd. I HATE THE MARLINS.
@13,
Having lived in Miami (pre Marlin days), I suspect it’s the weather rather than the stadium that keeps attendence down. I never attended a baseball game in Miami, but I can’t imagine sitting outside in that humidity in the middle of the summer. It’s awful and you can set your watch by the afternoon thunderstorms. The new stadium will have a retractable roof, but you would certainly hot have the roof open past April.
Maybe Steve Phillips statement is like George Costanza doing the opposite; whatever he predicts, the opposite will happen. Last year, he picked the Braves to win the division. (I doubt it, though.)
July 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm@15. You are exactly right. It was the fat man.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pmDouble post…oops
July 29th, 2009 at 3:14 pmThat stadium on the Broward/Dade border is similar to the one in Oakland—best used for football. In Oakland, they call the upper deck “Mount Davis” as in Al Davis.
I have a friend in Broward who is the only hardcore Marlins fan I know—reformed Met fan from NYC—and he tells me the same thing about the weather. More than anything, that’s what keeps people away from baseball games.
The drawings of the new stadium look awesome, BTW. And they should’ve been called the Miami Marlins since the beginning.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pmAs a Miami resident, here are the reasons why I’m not going to any Marlins/Braves games this week:
For about $50, the quality of the experience does not match up. I’d rather watch all three games in the comfort of my living room. I don’t feel like sitting in an empty stadium in a sketchy neighborhood with terrible food and unbearable heat/chance of rain
The only thing that makes the game worthwhile are the strippers disguised as cheerleaders that dance in between innings.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:28 pmOne of the good things about the new stadium is that is it near the beach. You hope on the bridge and South Beach is right there.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:33 pm@21,
rehabreject,
My understanding is that the new stadium is on the site of the old Orange Bowl. That neighborhood is no paradise as I recall. Do you think the team will draw better there? My friend in Miami thinks no one will go there because of the neighborhood and they will lose the north Miami/Broward crowd because it’s in the middle of Miami. Of course, it’s hard to see how things could be worse than now.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:36 pm@21 I understand that. I literally live right up the street from Nationals Park here in DC, and have not been to a game yet. As a matter of fact the last game I attended was when Andruw Jones was on his tear with the Braves. He hit a 3-run homer, and we all started chanting MVP.
However, I cannot blame it on the weather. This has been one of coolest summers I can ever remember here.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:38 pmYou look up “average” in the dictionary, there’s a picture of Ben Francisco. I guess he’s an improvement as a fifth outfielder on Mayberry. I guess.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:45 pmatleast it was the jamie foxx colin ferell miami vice..that must be tomorrow’s game thread video…if we lose the series tonight & stumble against the dodgers in the next two of three series is it safe to call it a season?
July 29th, 2009 at 3:51 pm@26. Yes it’s over. Too many teams to climb over at that point.
July 29th, 2009 at 4:04 pmStu, I think Vandy is about to battle Memphis for state supremacy.
July 29th, 2009 at 4:26 pmWon’t be much of a fight…
July 29th, 2009 at 4:38 pm#23
I’ve been going to Miami every year for about the last 20 years & I can tell you that a lot of things have changed in the area nearby the proposed new Marlin park. About a mile away is a major nightclub & restaurant zone that thousands of people hit every weekend, year ’round.
(It’s also the same area that probably holds some kind of record for ceased condo construction, but that’s another story.)
Will sports fans drive down on a Tuesday night for a game against the Reds? Probably not, but they don’t really do that in a lot of cities, like Atlanta.
But, like Atlanta, I think people will go down for the weekend games. Fans would be close to the downtown club/restaurant/bar zone and they’d also be just over the causeway from South Beach, which remains a huge weekend destination. (Shout out to Club Deuce on 14th Street, one of America’s great dive bars.)
Hit a game, then ease over to SoBe for a drink or bite on Ocean Drive? I could think of worse ways to spend time & money.
For good or ill, Miamians are very much about status and a new ballpark would bring that. I hope it works for them.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:10 pm23
Well, I don’t think the Marlins will “lose” any fans because they have one of the highest TV audiences of any MLB team. .. but yeah, I think that stadium will continue to be pretty empty. I live about 25 minutes from the new location and I don’t see myself going to any Braves/Marlins games unless it’s something like the end of a tight pennant race or some Heyward-type phenom is raking.
Also, the new stadium location isn’t the nicest, safest area but it’s better than the current stadium location
July 29th, 2009 at 5:34 pmlineup per DOB
1. McLouth
2. Prado
3. Chipper
4. McCann
5. Anderson
6. Escobar
7. Kotchman
8. Church
9. Kawakami
Peanut says that Kawakami is the most likely candidate to be bumped from the rotation when Hudson gets back.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:50 pmGameday is giving this lineup:
McLouth CF
Prado 2nd
Chipper 3rd
McCann C
Anderson LF
Escobar SS
Kotchman 1st
Church RF
Kawakami P
Oops you must have posted while I was typing.
In other news the Pirates sell off continues. Freddy Sanchez to the Giants for a AA pitcher and #4 ranked prospect.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:52 pmWow, the Giants gave up Tim Alderson (!) for Freddy Sanchez.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:58 pmGiants are your Wild Card favorites now. Hijo de puta.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:59 pmSo far this year the Pirates have traded away:
Left fielder Nyger Morgan to the Nats
First baseman Adam LaRoche to the Red Sox
2nd baseman Freddy Sanchez to the Giants
Short stop Jack Wilson to the Mariners
Center fielder Nate McLouth to the Braves
Reserve Eric Henskie to the Yankees
Reliever Sean Burnett to the Nats
Ian Snell to the Mariners.
Who’s next tomorrow?
July 29th, 2009 at 6:07 pmMan, did the Indians get a pu-pu platter for Cliff Lee.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:11 pmAn Eddie Rabbitt reference? Oh, dear.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:14 pm@36 – Seems like one of the blowups of those Marlins teams. Except, those Marlins teams were actually good.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:15 pmMaybe it’s just the TV, but the stadium seems eerily quiet.
Baseball stadiums shouldn’t sound like this.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:16 pmYunel just went the other way to get ACHE over. Fairly confident Joe just had a minor orgasm
July 29th, 2009 at 6:31 pmKotchman is horrendous
July 29th, 2009 at 6:34 pmStu, alas the daughter unit not interested in Vandy. Says its because I’ve suggested it more than once. Women (teenage daughters) I swear…….
July 29th, 2009 at 6:36 pmI am an admirer of the Marlins front office. They seem to find the talent and compete. But since I think that Jeffrey Loria is an asshole I can’t say that I wish too much success for them.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:38 pmI don’t think Kawakami knows where the ball is going.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:39 pmHe seems to be trying for that effective wildness thing.
Edit: And doing pretty well so far.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:43 pmWow, Johnson hit 99 on the gun.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:48 pmHahn called that strikeout pitch a ball against O’Flaherty.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pmI think first base umpires have something against us.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:01 pmBallgame.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:01 pmwhy do the umpires hate us in this series???
July 29th, 2009 at 7:02 pmwatching this game on Sun Sports and it just occured to me that baseball needs a new commish whose #1 priority is to crush the umps union( kinda like Rozelle did when the refs got uppity)……..these clowns are ruining the game and at least half of them should be fired on the spot and the rest need to get better….. they could always draft a few guys from the local softball league to finish the game.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:06 pmNo kidding, all those calls at first, sheesh.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:06 pmWhat bugs me is that Bud and Alderson already crushed the umpires’ union — then let it grow back, as bad as before.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:08 pmthat looked foul on my bootleg broadcast
July 29th, 2009 at 7:11 pmHaha, you can’t be serious.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:21 pmYou have got to be shitting me.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pmLet the pitcher beat you. This thing is on its way to 9-0. Good night.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pmOuch.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pmUgh
July 29th, 2009 at 7:22 pmPlease tell me that just didnt happen
July 29th, 2009 at 7:23 pmKawakami is on his way to the bullpen hopefully. This guy has been nothing but a huge disappointment
July 29th, 2009 at 7:23 pmFrustrating, he is good sometimes and terrible others. Tonight we needed him to come up big. Perhaps Huddy will be a starter after all.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pmIf you consider sub-4 ERAs in 3 straight months to be a huge disappointment, I don’t know what to tell you.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:25 pmI will give Niel Huntington credit for 1 thing. He knows how to have a firesale. The Pirates went from Niel Walker and Brad Lincoln being their number 2 and 3 prospects to them being around their 14th best prospects. And got some useful young players ala Morton too. We haven’t seen a firesale like this in a few years.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:25 pmwow my feed is delayed
July 29th, 2009 at 7:25 pm65 – It doesnt matter because, as soon as they become decent, they get sold away just like everyone else.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:27 pmKotchmania
July 29th, 2009 at 7:28 pmThey’ve done it before, PWHjort, in the mid-’90s, built up a near-contending team in ’97 (in a weak division), and let it all slip away again.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:29 pmWeldon gimme a break…
pitching in the majors is about consistency. Kenshin has been anything but consistent. A meatball homer pitch is always right behind door number 2. When Kawakami is out there no one has a clue how he’s gonna pitch, one night he may pitch like an ace the next like he doesn’t belong in the majors. His control issues are still a prob, way too many walks, way too many meatball pitches.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:32 pmDammit, Prado…
July 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pmThis isn’t mainland Japan where he can throw fastballs down the middle to 5’3 150lb japanesse middle infielders. This is the majors leagues… bigger, stronger, and more powerful
July 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pm3-run homer to the PITCHER….
Christ.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pmSo, does this series set our course? If we come back and win tonight and win tommorow, do we buy? If we lose tonight, do we sell?
What does everyone think? Is this make or break?
July 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pmI don’t think they do either njbravesfan
July 29th, 2009 at 7:39 pmas long as they stay within 5 games of the wildcard before break they won’t do a damn thing. I still think they should go out and get Sherril from the O’s
July 29th, 2009 at 7:41 pmId like to see them take a shot, We never match up well with the Marlins. ALthough, Im so unsure what to do, Thank god im not a GM.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:43 pmThey’ve already said they’re not buyers this year. This is the team we’re stuck with, unlike the Phillies, running away with the division and still making deals.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pmHey kenshin… take a moment after the game and read post
#70
Thanks
July 29th, 2009 at 7:44 pmThey can send Kawakami on the first thing smokling back to wherever he is from
July 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pmNot sure they can pass all these wild card teams without making a move for an arm in the pen and a decent bat with some power…
July 29th, 2009 at 7:46 pmWhat would we sell? Soriano and Gonzalez?
Pitching in the major leagues is about getting people out. KK is walking too many guys, but he’s been pitching well since May. Look at his numbers, Jon. This really shouldn’t be an argument anymore. KK is not a perfect pitcher, but he’s a sight better than Reyes, Morton, Campillo, Jason Shiell, whatever else we’ve thrown out the last couple years.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pmAnd number
#72
That’s equally as important. See in America… we have steroids. Your straight fastballs and weak offspeed pitches down the middle usually won’t end up in the catchers mitt but instead a 10 year old kids mitt 420 feet in the outfield
July 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pmSo our season has come down to the next three series & two of them are with the dodgers…yippie
July 29th, 2009 at 7:48 pmThe Phillies are gone, no use trying to make deals with them in mind. I would focus on the wild card from a practical standpoint.
I’m not sure how much SF just improved, but I think the WC is still up for grabs, or at least it was before we got to Florida.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:50 pmOhh yeah Weldon those guys are all clods… but that’s not the arugement. We aren’t comparing him to those players. I’m telling you he isnt good enough to stay on a 5 man rotation throughout the year. Yeah he has pitched alright for a month or two, but he’s still way too inconsistent to be a reliable starter. Unless you have an explosive offense he gets your team into too many holes they cant climb out of. Especially this braves team who loves just dying and melting away when they get down more than 4.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pmWell it’s not like we didn’t expect this. That’s why last night was so crushing. I wish we had a legitimate superstar power bat on this team. Chipper hasn’t been that dominant since ’99. We haven’t seen that type of season since Andruw had that very good last year. I hope Freeman is the guy.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pmHey, we’d be in pretty good shape right now if KK wasn’t giving up homers to random kids from the stands. Unfortunately, the Garret deception merely continues, to no avail.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pmLet’s give it to ACHE… he is really making us eat our words from earlier in the season
July 29th, 2009 at 7:55 pmShoot, KK could have served up two BP pitches and been all right if he hadn’t let the pitcher clobber him.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:55 pmChipper was hitting 400 for a while last year?! He was dominant, not with power, but with average.
By the way, Ache is RED HOT
July 29th, 2009 at 7:55 pmHeyward is the guy.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:56 pmWell said urlhix…
Let’s get heyward up quickly
July 29th, 2009 at 7:58 pmhttp://deadspin.com/5325886/i-hope-someone-gently-broke-the-news-to-josh-johnson
July 29th, 2009 at 7:58 pmTo be fair, Kirby Puckett’s passing was unbeknownst to me for two years after his death. I don’t know how I missed it.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:02 pmJon K,
You and Furman Bisher need to take a trip to Japan together–you are two of a kind. Maybe go to Hiroshima and gloat. You really don’t need to resort to quasi-racist statements to make your point. But then, if you weren’t nasty, you wouldn’t be you, would you?
Kawakami hasn’t been that bad; he’s been inconsistent but so has Lowe. He had a bad game. The key game was last night, I think. They didn’t figure to sweep anyway but that was a game they should have had. But the Braves have been squandering opportunities all year.
I think they will stand pat and they will remain on the fringe of the playoff race. This is really an average team, although probably better now than at the beginning of the season.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:05 pmI second that ^
July 29th, 2009 at 8:11 pmGood job by Medlen tonight
July 29th, 2009 at 8:11 pmAAA isn’t teeming with middle infielders who hit like Hanley and Uggla, either.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:13 pmI’d rather see Heyward later than sooner … I hope the FO is patient a la Hanson.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:15 pmJust missing some power thats it. Chipper is a good 3b, Escobar is good at SS, Prado is good at 2b, Kotchman stands out because he has no power at first base, but no one would notice if we had some other big boppers. We have the best Catcher in the National League. Our Outfield is suspect. They need to go out and get a big bat in the outfield next year, and we can win the wildcard
July 29th, 2009 at 8:16 pmUh-oh. Manny It’ll Cost Ya is in…
July 29th, 2009 at 8:22 pmEither these pitchers are all really wild, or this guy has a strike zone the size of an eggplant.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:23 pmOr a cherry tomatoe…..
July 29th, 2009 at 8:25 pmI agree, Frank. No reason to rush him.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:25 pm@103: Or Portia De Rossi’s boobs.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:28 pm@87 who the hell is Freeman? I was thinking Heyward, but typed in Freeman.
Giants get Sanchez…with their pitching and if they get any offense that will make the wildcard race even tougher.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:30 pmWell, that’s a bit harsh.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:31 pmHohn = biggest douche ump
added–prick must think people buy tickets to see him
July 29th, 2009 at 8:31 pmThe main thing is that the Marlins have mostly avoided giving up the walks once they go 3-1 on the batters, while the Braves haven’t.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:32 pmWhat is this asshole doing?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:34 pmWhat the hell is going on? Why’d he pull out the lineup card? Why’d he call time in the first place?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:35 pmboy, that guy is a douchebag. how far was that ball outside on gameday?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:36 pmUm, yeah, this umpire is going to have some questions to answer after walking over to the dugout and pulling out his lineup card for no apparent reason.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:36 pmIt’s not like McCann was going to get a hit off a lefthander, should have taken the pitch.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pmWhat happened there? Was he looking to throw somebody out?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:38 pmMy best guess is that Hahn pulled out the lineup card so Bobby could tell him which player he shafted…but that doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:39 pmjust looked at it on gameday. the pitch WASNT EVEN CLOSE! all 4 pitches to mccann were out of the zone. if mccann walks (which he well should have), this game is now in reach. seriously, does this guy have it out for us?
tony, he took a pitch a foot outside (seriously, go look) and it was called a strike. what’s he supposed to do?
July 29th, 2009 at 8:40 pma Yunel by ACHE–but can’t complain too much about his play lately
Hohn–what a piece of $h!t
July 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pmThe called strike to McCann was terrible, but that was basically the second DP he had hit into today. He’s gotta do better than that.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pmThis ump is a bucket of dicks.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:43 pmTypical d-bag umpire who considers himself bigger than the game itself. The sooner we have computers and sensors replacing umpires, the better. Screw the “human factor.” I want accuracy, consistency and impartiality.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:44 pm@118. McCann didn’t have to swing at the 4th pitch.
Our clean-up hitter is now 0 for 8 in the series. I would say he is a little frustrated.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:44 pmACHE-y breaky baserunning mistakey.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:45 pmAnd Bobby let Norton pinch hit last night instead of KJ….
July 29th, 2009 at 8:57 pmStupid Marlins.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:59 pmRecap is up. I hate complaining about the umpires, but sometimes you have to.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:06 pmHere’s a wishful thinking thought:
Trade Kawakami, KJ and someone else to Toronto for Doc.
If they don’t want KK, make it DLowe.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:09 am