24 Jul
We never seem to play too well against the Brewers game thread: July 24, Braves at Brewers
I blame Bud. They should have stayed in the AL where they belonged.
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I blame Bud. They should have stayed in the AL where they belonged.
I’m not a spammer Mac… really. I think I just had two or thee comments in the last thread marked as spam. All because I wanted to point out that somebody here should be sponsoring the guy we’re not talking about’s page on baseball-reference.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:05 pmRegardless of bias, Dawson will be in the Hall, either this year or next year. You just don’t get to 67% and not get in, OBP be damned. (He played till 1996, so he has 7 more years of eligibility.)
July 24th, 2009 at 2:07 pmIt’s the Royals fault. They had the choice to switch to the NL first, and declined. Thus the Brewers got to switch.
I wonder which league the Brewers would have been put in back in 1969 if they had started in Milwaukee instead of Seattle.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:13 pmAh, Grosse Point Blank. Great movie. Great song too.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:14 pmMac… apparently a link to baseball reference got me marked as a spammer… cause nothing I post logged in is appearing. Help?
July 24th, 2009 at 2:16 pmOK… even with just my NAME it’s marking me as Spam. Mac? Help!
July 24th, 2009 at 2:16 pmThe ESPN fantasy baseball expert (who looks like baseball’s equivalent of John Clayton) picked Manny Parra to have a good game tonight against ATL. I hope he’s terribly wrong.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pmOK, I’m CharlesP, but everything I try and post is disappearing as, apparently, spam. Hoping this makes it through so Mac can unflag me.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pmThe 1969 expansion was the result of a lawsuit against the American League. Ah for the days when the leagues were more than just conferences.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:32 pmJc’ed from the previous:
Murph was damn good ballplayer – but just isn’t a HOFer to me. Too short of a career, not a high enough peak, not enough counting stats, and rate stats are too low. Rice isn’t one either, but two mistakes would be worse than just one. Raines is the one getting screwed here – not Dawson and Murphy.
added- and Dawson is an even worse pick. New BBWAA motto “Why not just put in everyone who was good when I watched as a kid”
July 24th, 2009 at 3:06 pmSickels: Heyward vs. Stanton.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:12 pmDawson squeezed out a few more years on wounded knees, upping his counting stats. Murphy realized he couldn’t do it anymore & just bailed.
Brewers, Milwaukee.
Violent Femmes, Milwaukee.
Oh, I get it.
Saw them one time at a packed 688 Club in Atlanta in the dead of summer when the club’s air conditioning died. People were passing out. Good thing they were an acoustic band or it coulda been deadly.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:30 pmAs far as Dale Murphy goes, I didn’t become a Braves fan until 1991, so while I respect the hell out of him and have grown to understand how good he was and what he meant to the team, he doesn’t really mean all that much to me personally. In fact, my first memory of him is as a member of the Phillies (not to make people’s blood crawl or anything). So I think I can look at him fairly objectively, and I have to say, I really don’t think he has much of a case. I suppose it depends on what your criteria for the Hall of Fame are, and it’s different for everybody, but looking at his numbers, I just don’t see it, and frankly never really have. Now admittedly, Jim Rice certainly doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame either, in my opinion, and if we’re putting people like Rice in, an argument can definitely be made for Dale Murphy, but we could go a long way down that road if they start doing that. Frankly, if he hadn’t won back-to-back MVPs, I’m not sure there’d really be any discussion at all. At least not among the national writers.
Now, I’m sure you can argue, and probably correctly, that I can’t appreciate all he brought to the team and exactly how good he was during his peak years. And you would probably be right. And maybe if he played for either a winning team or a large media-market team, he’d be getting more pub. But when you play for a team as awful as most of his Braves teams were, and are only involved in one year where you carried the team to something at all worthwhile, all you have to fall back on are your stats. And frankly, his don’t measure up.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:32 pmMurphy was a two-time MVP who was basically the only good all-around player on an Atlanta team that somehow won the division one year. How is that not a high enough peak? Half the position players in the Hall didn’t have a high enough peak.
In my original article, I was not making, precisely, an if-one-then-two argument, because Rice wasn’t in the Hall yet — though it was clear that he would be eventually. The basic question is, still, why Rice and not Murphy? Or Parker, whose peak was almost as high (they won the MVP in the same year), whose team actually won a World Series, and whose career counting stats blow Rice out of the water?
Raines is a completely different matter. I didn’t even discuss it because (a) he wasn’t eligible yet and it was unclear how he would be received, (b) he was a different type of player, a leadoff man and not a 3/4 type, (c) he wasn’t really a contemporary, as his career got going and peaked several years later, and (d) he obviously should be in the Hall.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:34 pmFrankly, if he hadn’t won back-to-back MVPs, I’m not sure there’d really be any discussion at all.
And if Henry Aaron didn’t hit 755 HRs, I’m not sure there’d really be any discussion at all.
I understand the anti-Murphy argument, but you can’t just pretend like he didn’t win back-to-back MVPs—that he was the best player in the league for multiple years is a very, very strong arrow in his HOF quiver.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:35 pmThat article is pretty high praise from Sickels.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:41 pmAnother rough day for Carolina athletics. I don’t dislike Tim Tebow as much as I used to, and I can’t stand Spurrier, but it still hurts to see your coach groveling at the feet of another player. And it’s all so bizarre – if Spurrier’s story is true, what was the underling who filled it out thinking? Jevan Snead? You could make the argument that he’ll be the better pro QB, but I don’t think that was the purpose of the ballot.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:41 pmI don’t really buy Spurrier’s story. I think he just decided to stick it to Florida a little bit by not voting for Tebow. I think he’s decided to backtrack after some scrutiny and someone in the USCe Athletics Department is the fall guy.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:48 pmback to back MVP’s
Yeah, Mike Schmidt would like a word with you about 1982.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:48 pmRickey being in the Hall and off the ballot is good for Raines, who is now by far the best leadoff hitter not in the Hall. As Mac has written, when comparable players are on the ballot, they often split each other’s votes; therefore, the election of one often helps the others collect some of the previously split votes.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:49 pmLink, Weldon?
July 24th, 2009 at 3:49 pmWell first of all, if Hank Aaron had not had the all-time HR record, he’d still be in the Hall of Fame. Frankly, if he had Murphy’s HR total, he’d still be in the Hall of Fame. He had 3,000 hits and a bunch of other truly ridiculous stats. In fact, his argument as one of the greatest players of all-time has been hurt by his HR record, probably. So I’m not sure what you were going for there.
I guess I understand the underlying premise of your argument, but the MVP is a subjective award voted on by writers. It’s not necessarily the guy who had the best overall year. It’s not even supposed to go to the guy who had the best overall year. Just the guy who was most valuable to his team. A decent argument could have been made that Manny Ramirez, a guy who arrived in the league in late July, should’ve been last year’s NL MVP. Using it as a tool for Hall of Fame credentials is somewhat problematic. Not quite as bad as, but along the same lines of, using All-Star selections. Hell, most people have pretty much handed Barry Bonds the 1991 NL MVP, which he did not win, when they list his credentials (at least they did pre-steroids).
If you wanna say Dale Murphy was the best player in the league during those years and back it up with stats, that’s fine, but using the MVP award itself is problematic in my view.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:49 pmHow is that not a high enough peak?
Only six (and I’m being charitable here) elite offensive seasons. None of those being particularly world-beaters. His defense wasn’t THAT good. And then he fell right off a cliff.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:51 pmSure. But as far as 1982 goes, he pretty much WAS that team. He was by far the best player on a team he carried to the playoffs. That’s a very good description of a Most Valuable Player.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:56 pmThe basic question is, still, why Rice and not Murphy? Or Parker, whose peak was almost as high (they won the MVP in the same year), whose team actually won a World Series, and whose career counting stats blow Rice out of the water?
Because Rice ain’t a Hall of Famer either, in my view. If the bar is set to the worst guy in, you must be a very “big hall” kinda guy.
Why not Parker? His rate states aren’t HOF and he had no peak – a half dozen great years wildly interspersed (and everyone knows why) with a lot of pedestrian ones.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:57 pmSchmidt has a point about 1982 — but then, Murph should have won in 1987.
ADDED: One peripheral way to tell if someone is a HOF candidate is if he can win an MVP when he’s not having his best year. 1982 turned out to be Murphy’s fifth-best year, after 1987, 1983, 1985, and 1984. As I said, he should have won in 1987, and very easily could have in 1985, when there really was nobody having an MVP-type season and the actual best player was likely Doc Gooden.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:57 pmSo I’m not sure what you were going for there.
What I was going for is the point that it’s ridiculous to just arbitrarily remove huge accomplishments from a guy’s resume when discussing his HOF candidacy.
July 24th, 2009 at 3:59 pmHere ya go, mraver: http://jperson.thestateonline.com/?p=252
Stu, I don’t think I buy the story, either, but I’m unconvinced that he would do something that brash and then backtrack so quickly. Surely he’s not so out of touch to realize what a firestorm this would be…
July 24th, 2009 at 4:02 pmParker’s never going into the Hall. And he hardly has any supporters. The only way Murphy gets in is if there’s a major media campaign. I’d guess that even if he gets a bump, though, he’ll peter out around 40-50%. Last year of eligibility’s 2013; he just doesn’t have enough time.
It’s a shame.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:02 pmHe was by far the best player on a team he carried to the playoffs
I don’t recall this being the definition of Most Valuable player anywhere. In fact, I think it’s not a good one at all. So Bonds (let’s pretend he was clean for a moment) Shouldn’t have been MVP all those years?
Schmidt was just plain better than Murphy with the bat and at least his peer with the glove in 1982.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:03 pmDespammed. If you’re getting blocked, your best bet is to email me, because the spam filter is often a cesspool and I try to avoid looking at it.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:04 pmSorry, Jack Clark was better in ’87.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:06 pmSpike, that’s Terry Pendleton in 1991. You don’t have to agree with MVP being defined as “best player on a playoff team,” but it’s a fairly common definition.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:07 pmThrough the early eighties, and for at least ten years after that, there was a belief by the MVP voters that you shouldn’t give the award to the same guy every year, so people like Mantle, Mays, Morgan, and Schmidt only won when they exceeded their own high standards. That finally started to break down a few years ago.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:08 pmActually, the fact that MVP awards are voted by writers probably makes them a great barometer for Hall-worthiness, as the same BBWAA votes for the Hall.
Mac, I think I see Ozzie Smith backflipping over to take the ’87 MVP from the Hawk.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:09 pmI can’t control who is awarded MVP – but if your definition is the one we are going with, you can’t really use it to pimp someone’s HOF case. It (MVP Award) becomes totally involved in the kismet of whether your team was one of only four that went to the playoffs. All others need not apply. Hardly a point for measuring the value of a career since so few arbitrarily qualify
July 24th, 2009 at 4:11 pmI basically agree with spike.
But I so badly want Dale Murphy to be in the Hall of Fame that I will forever argue the most pro-Murphy arguments possible. When it comes to Murph, I just don’t care about the actual HOF criteria.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pmNick,
The missing thing from the Murphy argument is he played, well, CENTER field. Vastly different than playing left or right. The third toughest position on the defensive spectrum (right? Catcher / Shortstop , center, 2nd, 3rd, right, left, 1st). The positional adjustment as to a left fielder is 30 or so runs and Murphy was plus on that.
Another thing about centerfielders is that most “broke down” physically at slightly younger ages than their outfield counterparts. More like shortstops who have to move off to third or second or center field or left or right field (or, even to first base with Julio Franco and Ernie Banks) to keep playing.
Di Maggio basically was through at about 34 (with 13 seasons because he came up early and lost about 3 to WW II). Mantle was no longer effective in center (injuries and medical conditions, and alcohol all helped) within a few years of his debut. And we saw it with Andruw. Mays kept most of his centerfield capability to around 36 or 37, but after that he had no business out there. Every day centerfielders probably deserve to be judged on a shorter expected career (than left fielders, right fielders, first basemen, but probably more like catchers and shortstops).
I agree with someone who submitted that if Murphy had been able to cobble out 2 or 3 more slightly above average seasons on the end of his career, he would also be already in Cooperstown.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pmTerry Pendleton’s BB-ref page is unsponsored
July 24th, 2009 at 4:14 pmJack Clark played in 131 games in 1987, four of them as a pinch-hitter. I doubt anyone (other than pitchers and catchers) has ever won an MVP sitting 35 games on the bench. He barely even qualified for the batting title.
The 1987 MVP debate basically comes down to Ozzie and the rightfielders — Murphy, Gwynn, and Strawberry. And yet, somehow they chose another rightfielder entirely.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:15 pmCliff –
You do realize only half of Dales’s games played were as a CF?
July 24th, 2009 at 4:22 pmRight, and in those 150 more ABs Murph had 9 hrs, 4 2Bs and 15 LESS walks. If you think that overcomes a 60 point OPS/20 point OPS+ deficit, well you are entitled to your opinion.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:31 pmYou do realize only half of Dales’s games played were as a CF?
That’s still a lot and should be a discriminator between Rice/Dawson and Murph.
I don’t think any of the above are Hall-of-Famers, but once you make the mistake of letting Rice in then everyone has an argument.
The comment about Murph not having a high enough peak is bizarre. Maybe just a misunderstand of what ‘peak’ is acutally talking about. Murphy’s case is basically all about peak.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:34 pmThat’s an absurd argument, Spike. Leaving aside the enormous difference in defensive value and in just being in the lineup, here’s the Runs Created (in the B-R version):
1. Murphy (ATL) 143
Gwynn (SDP) 143
3. Strawberry (NYM) 132
Raines (MON) 132
5. Clark (STL) 127
6. Davis (CIN) 124
7. Guerrero (LAD) 121
8. Hayes (PHI) 113
9. Schmidt (PHI) 111
Dawson (CHC) 111
There’s no credible argument for Clark unless you think “having the best Strat-o-Matic card” is the definition of an MVP.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:37 pmIf you think that overcomes a 60 point OPS/20 point OPS+ deficit, well you are entitled to your opinion.
He only thinks that because it’s true.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:40 pmLet’s not forget that when Clark was on the bench, the Cardinals had to play either the decaying corpse of Dan Driessen or the legendary Jim Lindeman at first base. I think that having one of those guys in the lineup cost them a few runs.
There’s just no way that a first baseman who misses a fifth of his team’s games is the MVP. It’s just not feasible. If you want to argue that what Gwynn did was more valuable than what Murph did, or that Strawberry played on a better team in a bad hitting environment and still put up numbers almost as good, then fine. But arguing for Clark as the MVP is ignoring twenty percent of the season, saying it doesn’t matter.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:42 pmAn umpire (’85) & injuries (’85 & ’87) probably cost the Cards 2 titles. Those teams were hell to play.
And yes, Clark did have a killer APBA card in 1987.
Two other killer APBA cards:
“Dusty” Rhodes in 1954 (15 HR in 186 PA, 341/410/695)
“Hurricane” Hazle in 1957 (403/477/649 in 155 PA)
July 24th, 2009 at 4:53 pmI wonder what the Nats would want for Nick Johnson.
July 24th, 2009 at 4:54 pmI doubt anyone (other than pitchers and catchers) has ever won an MVP sitting 35 games on the bench.
Although I agree with your larger point, Messrs. Brett and Stargell have their hands raised.
(Stargell owing his MVP to Sister Sledge, of course. I actually believe that.)
July 24th, 2009 at 4:57 pmTrue, Sansho. But Stargell’s was practically a Lifetime Achievement Award. It was his last good year, and he led the We Are Family Pirates to a championship. He didn’t deserve it that year, but probably deserved it at some point 1971-1973, when he finished 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd. (1973 would be my choice; that was Rose’s MVP, but Pops was a lot better.)
July 24th, 2009 at 5:07 pmSo Stephon Marbury is officially insane.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:08 pmThanks for the Starbury Update PWH.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:20 pmMurphy’s career was probably also shortened by his original position (in the Majors, anyway) of catcher. So, while he certainly wasn’t any good at playing catcher, those couple of years plus the years in Center both contributed to the shortening of his career. True, it’s not a Kirby-like illness, but it is a factor in his lack of longevity.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:21 pmWell, despite the extra ABs, Murph had a WARP2/3 of 7.2 to Clarks’ 7.1. Clark was off to a monster season prior to the injury, and after he came back was nearly as good. His game (.355 EqA vs .322 EqR) was just better than Murph’s that year. Dale was already a full time RF by then (no GG that year either). But that’s fine. My argument was not Clark for MVP, just that IMO, he had a better year than Murph.
he only thinks that because it’s true
July 24th, 2009 at 5:23 pmConcede by .1 WARP. Got me.
52,
July 24th, 2009 at 5:25 pmI can’t stop watching it. It’s too funny.
Concede by .1 WARP. Got me.
Congrats, you found a stat where it was close. Being on the field counts. A lot.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:30 pmBesides, the Atlanta didn’t make the playoffs in ’87 and St. Louis did, so Dale doesn’t qualify for the MVP award anyway, and Jack does.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:30 pmThat’s obviously not the way they were thinking in 1987.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:35 pmIf you wanna hear an insane story about Billy Martin, check this out. It’s from Mets announcer Wayne Hagin doing a guest spot on WFAN today.
Hagin was the announcer in Oakland during the BillyBall Era. The story begins a little less than halfway thru the audio file.
http://tinyurl.com/lj67zu
1987: Yeah, I remember the furor over Dawson’s MVP.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:35 pmConsidering that they picked a guy on a last-place team.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:37 pm1. McLouth CF
July 24th, 2009 at 5:42 pm2. Prado 2B
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. Escobar SS
6. Anderson LF
7. Diaz RF
8. Kotchman 1B
9. Vazquez P
WARP, of course, is supposedly based upon the idea of a “replacement-level” player. As we’ve seen, in right field, for example, it’s perfectly possible to have a sub-replacement player. As the Cardinals did when Clark was out of the lineup. Driessen was sub-replacement, and Lindeman made Driessen look like Clark.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:43 pmInteresting discussion as it pertains to the mole man (Dale Murphy).
He was always be my favorite Brave, always. Dale was the consummate professional and a gentleman to boot. Hell, I never even knew he was a devout Mormon until after Dale retired.
As for the Hall of fame, the barometer for me is, was he the best player at his position for ten years or more?
No, Dale was not…. unfortunately. Three things went wrong in my opinion.
First, Murphy started out as a catcher then switched to 1B before finally settling into CF in 1980, which coincidently was a strike year.
Second, he only won the gold glove in CF from 1983-86 (five years).
Third, Dale’s bad knee’s really curtailed his offensive production in his early thirties and shortened his career. he was switched to playing RF in 1987.
All in all, if Dale Murphy had started out in CF, stayed healthy (did ya’ll know he played catcher for the better part of six years in the minors and Atlanta?) and been productive into his mid thirties, he would already be in Cooperstown.
Also, it was the idea of Bobby Cox to put Dale in CF and Murphy was an awful defensive player behind the plate and at 1B.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:45 pm@58 – Ask AAR, it’s his definition. Clark was also ahead of Murph (1st in the league actually) in Batting Runs and Batting Wins. So there’s two more for you.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:47 pm61,
You know what I love? I never have to look up and see:
1. McLouth CF
2. Prado 2B
3. Jones 3B
4. McCann C
5. Escobar SS
6. Anderson LF
7. Francoeur RF
8. Kotchman 1B
9. Vazquez P
Ever again! What a beautiful thing.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:48 pmInteresting factoids:
“No National League pitcher has had more starts this season during which he has allowed two earned runs or fewer than Jair Jurrjens. He has had 16. Dan Haren also has had 16, but nobody has had more than that.”
“The Braves have averaged two runs more per game since Martin Prado joined the starting lineup than they did before it.”
July 24th, 2009 at 5:55 pmHaven’t seen much talk of Julio Teheran this year (for obvious reason, he’s still at rookie ball and still all projection and hype at this point), but his numbers have looked sharp in his 5 starts this year. Not walking many, not giving up many runs, etc.
But does anyone know why he hasn’t pitched since the 13th? New or lingering injury problem? There’s no mention of anything like that in the press release from his last start (in which he pitched 8 innings). I know it’s tough to find news on rookie ball level prospects, but I was just wondering if something was up.
July 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pmBy the way, the Braves went 37-18 against the Brewers from 1998 to 2005, never losing a season series. It’s only in the last 3+ years that we’ve struggled (11-14). Still, that adds up to a .600 overall winning percentage against Bud’s Boys. Not too shabby.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:08 pmWill someone please look at this and tell me what in the hell LaRussa is up to today???
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=290724122
July 24th, 2009 at 6:25 pmI went to a game at Miller Park last May in a Chipper jersey (a Hudson/Bush matchup) and was heckled like I’ve never been heckled in my entire life. In the parking lot to the stadium, in the stadium, at the food stands, on the way out of the stadium. It was relentless.
I was accustomed to going to games in Pittsburgh where they accept their terribleness.
I seem to remember shouting things at Mike Hampton during BP, so maybe it was karma. I never understood why he always was in full uniform.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:26 pmIt’s a Yahoo! glitch. Gameday has a normal Cards lineup, with the pitcher batting ninth and everything.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:27 pmOK thanks Brian.
Douglass, considering Danville has used 18 pitchers in their first 30 games, my guess is that they don’t want to overthrow the young arms. I haven’t heard of any injury to Teheran.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:30 pmLa Russa begins every day in front of the mirror telling himself how awesome it is to be TLR. “I’m Tony La Russa. I’m a lawyer. People write books and make movies about me.” [Repeat 100 times]
July 24th, 2009 at 6:33 pmThe problem was that Yahoo! didn’t put Holliday into the Cards’ lineup.
ESPN has a correspondent (Rachel Nichols) reporting from Brett Favre’s front lawn because he still can’t figure out if he wants to play.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:33 pmMakes sense, sansho. I kind of suspected as much. I only asked because he had such limited action last year due to injury, and it seemed that they were piching him at a regular interval up until this point.
I can’t help it if it’s all hype, the kid intersts me.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:40 pmBTW, is rookie ball for weeding out bad talent or great names? Because in addition to Julio Teheran and Riann Spanjer-Furstenburg, of whom I’ve heard, they also have:
Daniel Elorriaga-Matra
Osman Marval
Kuyaunnis Miles
Ryohei Shimabukuro
L.V. Ware
Derick Himpsl
Right there you’d have eight of the top 25 names in all of major league history, if they are allowed to progress that far. This tells me there must have been many thousands of greatly named ballplayers who have been conspired against throughout history — a purposeful blandification, if you will.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:48 pmShimbakuro v. Matra would be an awesome showdown , assuming one of them is a pitcher, and/or giant moth.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:04 pm1B and C, respectively, Spike. Can’t say if either one’s a moth, but Matra’s .109 average argues against a human build.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:08 pmInteresting – Gamecast has a MIL as a 58% favorite before the end of the first. IS that really the average for the home team’s win pct?
July 24th, 2009 at 7:12 pmYou know, you don’t often see a team use as their leadoff hitter a catcher hitting .243.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:16 pm#70……and Hampton was probably wondering why a grown person was wearing a jersey with another mans name on it.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:17 pmNow THAT was good baserunning.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:30 pmWaitasec… I thought you couldn’t get an RBI on a double play.
Edit: Thought not. Gameday took it away.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:31 pmBrewers messed that up enough to get the run in. Good enough for a Kotchmania at-bat I guess.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:32 pmFreeman and Heyward doing work already tonight..
Mississippi up 6-0 in the 4th. Heyward and Freeman each with two hits and a R and RBI.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:36 pmBut Barry, I’m not that grown. Is still being in college grown? Besides, the part of me that was wearing the Chipper jersey was still in 6th grade.
Better than a Francoeur jersey/shirt any day of the week.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:38 pm“Which Atlanta Brave has no musical taste whatsoever?”
July 24th, 2009 at 7:38 pmSomeone’s bout to get branded as a Nickelback fan. That’s gotta hurt.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:39 pmMan, That Javier Vazquez is a good f’n ballplayer…even if he doesn’t know how to win.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:41 pmI wonder what Snitker’s favorite band is. I say Styx.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:42 pm@88 – Just thought the same thing. Boog wants to make fun of them so bad.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:42 pm“I do think certain kinds of music can make you violent. Like, when I listen to Nickelback, it makes me want to kill… Nickelback.” – Brian Posehn
July 24th, 2009 at 7:42 pmWith that mustache? I’d say he dreamed of being in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQbZRMLKozk
See: time mark, 2:52
July 24th, 2009 at 7:44 pmThe Prado Strikes.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:45 pmprado!
July 24th, 2009 at 7:45 pmPrado at it again. 3 run homer? *yawn*
July 24th, 2009 at 7:45 pmYou can’t stop Prado, and you can’t even contain him.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:46 pmPrado!
July 24th, 2009 at 7:46 pmI love the “Separate Ways” video, which is the greatest piece of comedy the MTV era ever produced. But frankly, Snitker isn’t even cool enough to be a Journey fan.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:46 pmNitrambomb!
July 24th, 2009 at 7:47 pmPrado, baby.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:47 pmJoe, it sounds like maybe Bobby and TP should switch jobs.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:47 pm“Barrelling up” again. What the hell does that mean?
July 24th, 2009 at 7:49 pmMac, has it ever been explained why that guy’s keyboard ends up on the wall?
July 24th, 2009 at 7:49 pmJoe used “barreling up” again!
July 24th, 2009 at 7:49 pmClearly, this field is about 15 feet too big.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:50 pmThere’s so much to explain. Like, why is she walking up and down a loading dock? How could they make a video in which Steve Perry is at most the third-goofiest-looking person? Can you actually play the garbage cans?
July 24th, 2009 at 7:51 pmNickelback: the bullpen catcher of bands.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:53 pmAlan Butts, PWN3D!!!!!!!1111oneoneoneeleven
July 24th, 2009 at 7:53 pmThere’s just so much denim. And that sleeveless t-shirt with the pink squares. That was a good idea.
The keyboard player clawing at the air at about :55 is stone cold classic.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:54 pmSteve Perry. Steeeeeve Perry.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:54 pmMiller Park really sucks.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:54 pmI liked Nickelback… in the SEVENTH grade!
July 24th, 2009 at 7:55 pmI bet Snitker’s favorite band is Foreigner.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:55 pmJavy on the verge of an episode?
July 24th, 2009 at 7:56 pmI’m sticking with Styx, but that’s also a good guess.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:56 pmsdp with the self pwnage.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:57 pmI always thought Journey’s Steve Perry looked like a gnat.
Journey, Styx or Boston?
I close my eyes & say…Boston.
I saw Foreigner once when I was 14. They were blown away by their opening act: Cheap Trick.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:58 pmI heard the other day that on their first US tour, the Who opened for the Turtles.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:59 pm“Decaying corpse of Dan Driessen”…that’s just funny
Lots of hard hit balls in this game tonight. Neither pitcher seems to have much. Might be a 12-10 affair in the works.
I’d bet Snitker listens to the Judds.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:59 pmCraig Counsell is the same as Randy Winn against the Braves.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:00 pmWho was the Nickelback fan, or did they say?
July 24th, 2009 at 8:07 pmHelluva recovery by Vazquez there.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:08 pmGuy hits a double, and they make him bunt.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:10 pmLook, at this point we might as well get rid of errors entirely. Guy whiffs on a double play ball, it hits him on the knee, they call it a double.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:14 pm122 — Alan Butts.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:14 pmNever seen a double off the 2B’s leg before.
Let’s break it open, Chip.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:17 pmJesus
July 24th, 2009 at 8:20 pmLets go Bmac… this is a game changing plate appearance right here
July 24th, 2009 at 8:20 pm“Look, at this point we might as well get rid of errors entirely.”
I’ve been saying that for 2 years. They really serve not a lick of purpose at this point. With the advanced fielding metrics and the fact that the scoring decisions are so silly anyway (and thus you might as well not pay attention to ERA, probably more useful to pay attention to RA) they’re really sort of useless.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:21 pmDamn, that hurts.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:25 pmDamn. They should’ve built this park smaller.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:26 pmWell, St L is taking care of the Phils for the moment at least
July 24th, 2009 at 8:26 pmThis team can never drive that nail into the heart of another team when they have the chance to. They squander more run scoring opportunities
July 24th, 2009 at 8:27 pmWell, that sucked.
Hope that doesn’t come back to haunt us, but I still like our situation so far.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:28 pmOooh, I don’t know about letting Parra hit for himself, especially since you can’t expect more than one more inning from him anyway.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:35 pmHere’s our fun Mets fact of the day. The Groundhog is batting cleanup for them today.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:37 pmand he has been lately, they suck
July 24th, 2009 at 8:38 pmAnd our fun Groundhog fact of the day. He hasn’t drawn a walk since JUNE 19.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:39 pmLooking at their lineup… that’s probably the best choice.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:39 pmHistory’s worst hitting streak!
July 24th, 2009 at 8:43 pmEnded yesterday
July 24th, 2009 at 8:44 pmOh, wasn’t paying attention.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:45 pmFrenchy’s 1-3 with an RBI single. Good for him.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:47 pmHeyward 3-4 with a HR, 2B, and BB tonight. He’s pretty good at baseball.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:50 pmUgh.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:52 pmDamnation.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:52 pmTotally not good.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:53 pmI can think of a couple of pitches that might be better than to throw a fastball belt high to Ryan Braun on a 1-2 count
July 24th, 2009 at 8:53 pmWell…we’re gonna have to score against this club because they will certainly put some runs up. Hopefully we didn’t blow our wad back in the 4th when we had Parra on the ropes and didn’t capitalize.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:56 pmTP should be fired
July 24th, 2009 at 8:57 pmHey, it’s the Vulture!
July 24th, 2009 at 8:59 pmAfter that HR, Heyward’s line through 17 games at AA:
.424 BA / .514 OBP / .746 SLG / 1.260 OPS with 9 doubles, 2 triples, 2 HR, 13 runs, 13 RBI, 11 BB, and only 4 k’s.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:59 pmAny chance Heyward is a late season call up?
July 24th, 2009 at 9:01 pmjon k, if they are smart – no
July 24th, 2009 at 9:04 pmCHIPPA, could used that in the 4th
July 24th, 2009 at 9:06 pmChippa!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:06 pmCHIPPER!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:06 pmI knew Chipper was going to atone for that strike out!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:06 pmRemember when Tommy Hanson was called up? Heyward, same time, next year.
CHHHHHIIIIIPPPPPPEERRRR!!! Bang!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:06 pmHe barreled up on that one.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:07 pmOld Man longball. Could have used that last time up, but hopefully it’ll do.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:08 pmOne at bat too late, but still good.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:08 pmbarreled up is a great Joe Simpson line
July 24th, 2009 at 9:08 pmI’m already preparing myself to be disappointed. I felt those first two games we dropped at Miller Park last year after Memorial Day changed the trajectory of the season.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:11 pmSomebody tie up Moylan.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:12 pmHalf of my searches yesterday were “why do the braves keep Moylan”.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:14 pmI hit my first double of the season this year off the first baseman’s chest. I hit a ball pretty hard at the first baseman, it kicked up, hit him in the chest, and ricocheted down the line. Even my slow butt got to second off of it. It was legit, I tell ya…
July 24th, 2009 at 9:15 pmI’m not gay, but I would make love to Ryan Braun. Dude is sexy.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:17 pmHow do you walk Corey Hart
July 24th, 2009 at 9:17 pmsdp, well then you’d be gay
July 24th, 2009 at 9:18 pmDid Ya’ll hear about this yet…..
Texas Rangers pitcher Vicente Padilla tested positive for swine flu, though his symptoms are subsiding and he’s expected to make his next start.
Padilla was scratched from his start Wednesday against Boston due to flulike symptoms, and lab reports Friday indicated he had H1N1 influenza A. He is thought to be the first athlete in U.S. major pro sports to be diagnosed with swine flu.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:19 pmI guess Jim Fregosi missed a couple of liners, one to third that Beckham snared, and another just foul, in the Buerhle game. I saw them on the Sportscenter highlight package.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:22 pmI know the Mets had a member of their traveling party diagnosed with swine flu back at the beginning of June. No players infected, though.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/06/03/mets.swineflu/index.html
July 24th, 2009 at 9:25 pmNew poll!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:27 pmJoe explaining the flat billed hat trend to us.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:28 pmWoo, first vote! It’s even more horrible, of course. Probably Britney Spears or sumpin’.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:29 pmDamn.
Have you guys ever seen a night where we flashed more warning track power?
July 24th, 2009 at 9:33 pmI voted for Big & Rich. Changed my mind about the Foreigner.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:35 pmI like the Holliday pickup… for the Phillies
July 24th, 2009 at 9:36 pmGood God, Moylan’s up!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:36 pmFinally!
I really, really, hate Styx. Last year, they put a guy from Styx in the Alabama Music Hall of Fame, thereby creating a Hall of Fame Lionel Richie should be ashamed to be in.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:40 pmThere is no point in swinging. He won’t call a third strike.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:46 pmAnd Mr. Fielder wins the Golden Sombrero! I think I’d let someone else give him the award, though.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:46 pmCox: Norty, I’ll give you three chances. Hit or retire.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:48 pmTommy Shaw is not exactly Hank Williams.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:49 pmwell, there you go
July 24th, 2009 at 9:50 pm“Snitker” just _sounds_ like the name of a Phil Collins fan.
Oh hey Nate, good to see you again.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:50 pmNate!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:50 pmGreat. Now Norton will get six more chances.
Edit: Nate, glad to see the slump’s dead!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:51 pmNatebomb. Need more of that stuff.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:51 pmEither this place has the biggest warning track in history, or we’ve just missed scoring about 25 runs tonight.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:52 pmThey should have stopped in 2003.
ADDED: I’d forgotten that Lionel Richie was actually in the AMHOF twice.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:53 pmNATE!!!
July 24th, 2009 at 9:54 pmHas anyone else noticed Garrett Jones of the Pirates?
74 AB, 10 HR, 1.272 OPS
Was always seen as a lifer AAA player. He’s the uber-Conrad
July 24th, 2009 at 9:56 pmYeah, The Groundhog Effect.
I think the Glossary needs an update to distinguish between “The Groundhog” and “The Groundhog Effect.”
Similarly, I think we should do the same with “The Hamster” and “The Hamster Complex” (When a player has a literally subhuman skillset and value to a baseball team, yet is carried on the roster anyway).
Both of these additions would of course spark one of humanities great debates: Which is more harmful to a baseball team, a Groundhog or a Hamster? Think about it. Sure, the Hamster is the worse player, but they don’t play very often. But a Groundhog, despite having more potential, gives you just enough to stay in the lineup another day (or six weeks). A Groundhog is much worse, in my opinion. A groundhog slowly bleeds a team to death.
What does this have to do with the game? Well, which one is Greg Norton, a Hamster or a Groundhog? Both, right?
July 24th, 2009 at 9:58 pmMoylan getting ready. Anyone with heart issues turn the game off.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:59 pmWell, which one is Greg Norton, a Hamster or a Groundhog? Both, right?
Whichever the hunting season is in on I hope.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:01 pmThat’s easy, Joe. Now, what would McClung weigh on the moon?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:01 pmWell, we’re up by enough that he shouldn’t cause more than mild angina.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:02 pmhaha thanks for the warning Tomas
July 24th, 2009 at 10:02 pmwoo run support for Javy in his last two starts, i bet he is excited
July 24th, 2009 at 10:05 pmI once thought “Renegade” was kind of a cool song, but I snapped out of it.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:06 pmNorton is a marmot.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:07 pmPhillies lost.
Giants beating the Rockies. Cubs won. Astros won.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:07 pmDaniel,
Did you know that the Braves actually drafted Garrett Jones in the 14th round back in 1999? Then waived him after only three years in the system…but he never got more than 150 ABs. I wonder what the story was there…injuries, or he maybe he was just that bad.
Speaking of the Pirates, much as I may like McLouth, it is amazing that so many people thought the Pirates made a bad trade. Andrew McC and guys like Garrett Jones are replacing every bit of his production, and Morton is giving them decent major league innings, plus there is a chance that down the road they get useful major leaguers out of both Locke and Gorkys. Given their circumstances, they made a great trade. And a decent trade for us too.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:07 pmMaybe “Corey Hart” should have been a poll option, all things considered.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:08 pmthink they are gonna run Soriano out tonight?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:09 pmNow that wasn’t so bad, was it?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:10 pmProbably, since Soriano hasn’t worked much lately.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:12 pmAnd we can all breathe again. Do that every time, Peter!
July 24th, 2009 at 10:12 pmI’ll have a sip of Foster’s now.
Remember the time when it took an entire series to score 8 runs?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:13 pmThis club is for real.
So, you blew a four-run lead, BFD. We’ll score four more!
July 24th, 2009 at 10:15 pmhow about 16 hits? that was about a weeks worth not to long ago.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:16 pmI wonder where Kotsay winds up. Not here, of course.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:17 pmMarvelous Martin strikes again.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:18 pmgood god he threw the pitch to the fans
July 24th, 2009 at 10:18 pmMartin! What is there left to say at this point?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:18 pmMcClung sucks.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:19 pmNitram again, again. Nice steal by Nate too.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:20 pm@206
Look at what the Cards gave up for 3 months of Holliday.
We have Nate for 4 years at an average salary of under 4 MM per and have an out on the last year if his game goes to hell.
I liked the trade at the time. I love it now. Both Locke and Gorkys have been horrible since the trade, and Morton was surplus for us at best. None of them are close to being the player Wallace will be. It was an awesome deal for the Braves and the Pirates…are still the Pirates
July 24th, 2009 at 10:21 pmDid Joe just say “Little Rick Flair to right”?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:21 pmthere seems to be some evidence that that Martin Prado guy is pretty good.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:21 pmThis has been a fun month.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:22 pmFreaking Prado. Kelly Johnson may never see the starting lineup again.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:22 pm@222
That’s the alternative to “barreling it”
July 24th, 2009 at 10:22 pm@222 he said that last week too & Mac said to just let it go hahaha
July 24th, 2009 at 10:24 pmThe Mets and Phillies lost. The Mets really suck. If we hadn’t traded for Teixeira, I’d be all over Halladay right now just to piss off the Phillies.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:24 pmRough night for McCann.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:24 pmMy bad. If they pick up his 2012 option, it comes out to around 6 MM per. Still well worth the value however
July 24th, 2009 at 10:26 pmIt cant be that Martin is establishing a new level of play?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:27 pm@193 I don’t know, there’s a bunch of folks that deserve to be in the Bama HOF. Dan Penn comes to mind.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:28 pmI agree the McLouth deal is terrific. Nate isn’t a super star but he is a damn good player.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:29 pmyep soriano time
July 24th, 2009 at 10:30 pmSoriano makes it look easy.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:31 pmIf Nitram starts all but 10 games or so from here on out, he’ll qualify for the batting title. I don’t think Hanley’s giving it up, but right now Prado would be fourth, and only a few points from second.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:31 pmThe “little Ric Flair” comment was followed by a little WOO! from Boog.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pmBraves win!
July 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pmWitch Doctor
July 24th, 2009 at 10:35 pmNow this is the Braves team I grew to know and love when I was fifteen.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:35 pmYunel and Prado since June 1:
Yunel: .322 BA / .375 OBP / .500 SLG / .875 OPS; 6 HR, 23 R, 31 RBI
Prado: .364 BA / .422 OBP / .526 SLG / .948 OPS; 4 HR, 27 R, 18 RBI
Production like that from the middle infield will win you some ball games.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:36 pmnice win
July 24th, 2009 at 10:38 pm232: Maybe, but I keep coming back to that Styx thing.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:39 pmStyx always sounded like show tunes to me.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:41 pm@244 you mean they arent show tunes?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:43 pmDunno if it’s been posted yet, recent fangraphs write up on Prado: Prado Producing in Atlanta
July 24th, 2009 at 10:45 pmI hear ya. They’ve always tried to have a high profile inductee to drum up attendance to the ceremony. Doesn’t make it right, for sure.
Edit: and by “high profile” I mean someone the mullet-sporting crowd that surrounds the HOF has actually heard of.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:45 pmIt’s been four years since I’ve seen this team play this well.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:46 pmI said the trade was a good trade for us. But it was also a fantastic trade for the Pirates, in part because they recognized that Nate’s value would never be higher, but more so because they recognized that they would actually be every bit as good by simply playing McCutchen instead.
Nate’s ML avgs are .260/.337/.458
As a rookie McCutchen is putting up .297/.354/.462.
Over the next three years McCutchen will more than replace Nate’s production and he’ll do it for something like 17 million fewer dollars. And they got potentially as many as 5 cost controlled years of useful ML ready starting pitching plus two promising prospects.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:47 pmRecap time.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:51 pm