Giants 5, Braves 1
San Francisco Giants vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – July 23, 2009 – ESPN
When smart-alecky people like me, who never played the game, say that the bunt is a bad play, what we really mean is that the sacrifice bunt, if used and fielded correctly, produces fewer runs than hitting away. However, this breaks down when the defensive team doesn’t accept the proferred sacrifice, because the attempt to give away an out for a base often turns instead into a base and a baserunner. In other words, take the out, stupid.
In the eighth inning of what I will call today’s “game” because this is a family website, the Atlanta Braves presented a stirring example of stupidity and ineptitude rarely seen in Atlanta since the introduction of New Coke. I speak not of Mike Gonzalez, who entered a 1-1 game to start the inning, and was hit with a line drive that turned into a single and was forced to leave the game, though he probably shouldn’t be giving up line drives on 0-2 pitches. I speak of Casey Kotchman, alleged gold glove-quality first baseman (“no errors in an Atlanta uniform!”) who suffered a complete brain-lock when the ensuing hitter attempted to gift the Braves with an out, lollygagged when he discovered there was no chance for the out at second, and was late throwing to first, for an alleged “hit”. He left the game on a double-switch (for Kelly Johnson, back on the roster in place of Brooks Conrad, instead of Greg Norton, even though Norton is awful and in fact ended the game today; I suspect Bobby had a hissyfit after the Braves originally planned to DFA Norton), bringing an end to History’s Worst Hitting Streak.
I also speak of Peter Moylan who apparently [deleted because it's possibly an ethnic slur] and who, when fielding the next bunt, instead of just taking the out at first base, looked at third, forcing him to rush the throw to first, which he then threw off the batter’s helmet, allowing a run to score and turning the Giants’ miserable attempts to scratch out a single run into a big inning. By the end of the inning, four runs had scored, all while Moylan was in the game. Only two runs were charged to Moylan, only one of them “earned”, even though the entire thing was almost all his fault.
The Braves’ only run scored on a solo homer by — who else? — Yunel in the second. They had several scoring opportunities because of walks, but had only six hits, only three off of starter Barry Zito and three in the last two innings off the bullpen, already down four runs. One was a two-out double in the ninth with nobody on by pinch-hitter Brian McCann, and it sure is a good thing he was saved for that crucial situation.
Kenshin Kawakami was limited to five innings largely due to control issues, as he threw 97 pitches, 58 strikes. Apparently, the umpire had one of those unusual strike zones that resembles a modern art sculpture, but I didn’t see for sure. At any rate, Bobby was thrown out in the sixth for “arguing balls and strikes” when Yunel was called out on a strikeout-throwout DP on a 3-2 pitch that was apparently high. Arguing balls and strikes is allegedly an automatic ejection, but everybody argues balls and strikes so if you actually enforced this rule you’d wind up with all forfeits, so what it really is is an “umpires can eject anyone they want at any time and MLB won’t do anything about it” rule.
Funny note. Buehrle’s #1 similarity on baseball-reference.com is Tom Browning, another perfect game thrower. No joke.
And this is already updated.
http://mlb.com/mlb/history/rare_feats/index.jsp?feature=perfect_game
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:26 pmI’m not sure what this will do to my fantasy stats, but Mike Gonzales’ ERA is listed as “Infinity.”
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:28 pmI really don’t know what got into me there. Innings like the eighth make me angry, but I don’t think they normally lead to that sort of overwriting.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:30 pmWell after playing great baseball for a week, that type of inning seems like more of an atrocity. If that inning happened in early June, I don’t think I’d be surprised or angry at all. It would have simply been more of the same.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:32 pmOr if we were the Mets
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:34 pmCheck out Beuhrle’s #1 comparable on baseball reference.
I chuckled.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:36 pmRepost…
Karma…
Send down Conrad, replace with the guy who was part of the problem when the team was sucking, and this is the type of game you get. Have a laugh Conrad.
Is anyone worried about McClouth slumping and Chipper BA. 286, now lower than Garrett Anderson’s .287? Just asking…
I just hope Prado doesn’t feel any undo pressure with bad vibe KJ back.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:38 pmMark Buerhle had a perfect game? unbelieveable
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pmOn the AJC links: “Organist’s touch tickles Braves fans”
You’ve got to be kidding me.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pmBad game. It’s over. Let’s take 2/3 in Milwaukee.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:45 pmYou really have to see Wise’s catch in the ninth. It’ll be all over SportsCenter tonight. Won’t be hard to find. But we’re talking Otis Nixon territory if Otis Nixon’s catch preserved a perfect game instead of merely a 13-game winning streak. It was unbelievable.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:46 pmCrazy catch.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:55 pmMan, truly great catch by Wise. To save the perfect game at that. Wow.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:56 pmWise Catch
great catch
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:56 pmExactly, ububba.
Now is not the time to go batshiitecrazy or anything. The team played well…now it needs to transfer over to the road trip.
KK is just killin the pen, though.
We’re gonna have to either put a tested-and-ready-to-go Hudson in his place…or have Hudson ready to go 2 or 3 in all KK starts down the stretch.
I didn’t see the game today, so I can’t speak as to the strike zone…BUT, there was a weird call on a Giant double down the line (umpire switched his call from foul to fair), a close call at 2B, lots of bitching over the strike zone. Seems like an unsuccessful day for the Blue today. But that’s been happening with disappointing regularity this year.
July 23rd, 2009 at 3:57 pmMac,
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:06 pmWordpress would like me to let you know that Version 2.8.2 is available.
1904-Cy Young
1908-Addie Joss
1922-Charlie Robertson
1956-Don Larsen
1964-Jim Bunning
1965-Sandy Koufax
1968-Catfish Hunter
1981-Len Barker
1984-Mike Witt
1988-Tom Browning
1991-Dennis Martinez
1994-Kenny Rogers
1998-David Wells
1999-David Cone
2004-Randy Johnson
2009-Mark Buehrle
And one of my favorite trivia questions is this: Who is the only catcher to catch 2 perfect games?
No cheating!
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pmWow! Robbed him of a homer THEN doesn’t drop the ball after it pops out of his glove. That, considering the situation, might be the catch of the year.
The Braves? Meh. Move on, play well against the Brewers and put this one out of your minds.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pmJoe Girardi? I know he caught Cone’s PG. Did he catch Wells’? I’ll look it up.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pmNo, Posada caught Wells’ PG.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:12 pmIt’s Ron Hassey.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pmCheater!
Yep.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:13 pmNever would’ve gotten it. Too young.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pmIt was a question on an episode of Stump the Schwab, which they still replay on ESPN Classic.
Not that I watch it or anything.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:22 pm50-46 vs 49-47
Why is it that the former is so much more aesthetically pleasing than the latter . . . (One reason: because the Braves would have as many wins as the Mets have losses.)
Oh well . . .
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:23 pmI was at the game. kind of wish i wasn’t. I don’t think anyone realized bobby actually got thrown out until it wasn’t him out there looking at gonzalez after he got hit. Also, take the out. Also, gonzalez’s arm is going to fall off again. Also, why in the hell did mccann pinch hit for ross, instead of letting ross hit then pinch hitting for the pitcher? That’s the second time that’s happened this year, and it made sense neither time. Norton is a better hitter than ross? Really? Someone thinks this in the braves management?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:29 pmGreat catch by Wise, obviously huge in the situation, but nowhere near Nixon’s grab. Wise banged into the wall, took the HR and held on. Nixon planted on the wall and jumped ELEVEN FEET INTO THE AIR to catch the ball.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:31 pmAs for the snark from Cliff re: Conrad’s demotion (in the previous thread) it’s a simple question really. Do you want to cut Norton before you know Infante is healthy and ready to return? If you do, you keep Conrad (who has options) and release Norton (who doesn’t.) If you would prefer to keep Norton as an alternative until you know what Infante is going to do you park the guy with options in AAA until you know exactly that.
This isn’t particularly complex or hard.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:33 pmNobody would claim Norton, because he sucks. If he won’t accept a demotion, screw him. And it has nothing at all to do with Infante, because they have different roles. Infante’s role is to be a productive major league ballplayer. Norton’s role is, apparently, to process carbohydrates.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:36 pmHey — what was the ethnic slur? “Ossified”? Or is that just a terrible pun?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:37 pmAnd Norton’s performance again today justiifed his lofty status.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:37 pmIt seemed like the team was mentally already boarding the plane to Milwaukee before that one ended. One game at a time, fellows.
As for the arguing balls and strikes rule, no umpire is ever going to say, “You know. You’re right. That really was a ball after all. My bad. I’ll change the call.” So arguing is just a complete waste of everybody’s time except in a Phil Jackson work the ref sense for later calls. Any manager who leaves the dugout to argue balls and strike deserves to be thrown out for slowing down the game for no good reason.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:37 pmMac,
How do you know Norton isn’t on South Beach induction?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:39 pmAAR — It involved beer and Marmite.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:39 pm31—As with every other manager-umpire confrontation, it’s all about the next call(s).
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:40 pmRon, they can throw you out if you stay in the dugout and bitch, and sometimes they do. Umpires are power-mad little tyrants.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 pm#31 Nah. A manager has to stick up for his players. If the strike zone is being called inconsistently then he has to kindly point that fact out to the umpire.
Oh well. I’m still giddy from a great series. Beating the hell out of the crippled Mets is one thing but scoring all those runs against a good SF pitching staff gives me some hope.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:47 pmisn’t it called vegemite in Australia?
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:52 pm@28
I don’t necessarily disagree. Braves management does. It’s not a cut and dried question. Norton was has been a good PH for most of his career. The next guy on the depth chart is..who is after Diory Hernandez? Unless you’re going to fall back on the Barbaro card, but Barbaro can’t backup 2B/3B/LF in a pinch.
In the end you’re talking about two weeks of accumulated difference between Greg Norton and Brooks Conrad. It’s not a big deal.
July 23rd, 2009 at 4:52 pmGlad I missed this one.
The Braves combination of never being able to get down a bunt and rarely being able to successfully field a bunt is a deadly one. Fundamentals people.
July 23rd, 2009 at 5:06 pmSo who has Buehrle in the Braves Journal fantasy league? Because of him you get a complete game, shutout, no hitter, and a perfect game.
July 23rd, 2009 at 5:30 pmAnother Mark Buehrle tidbit: He’s now thrown 2 no-hitters & Eric Cooper was the home-plate ump in both games.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:00 pm“Today” (7 PM yesterday to now) is the highest traffic day in Braves Journal history. Who says we like to complain?
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:02 pmEvidently, we like to win. (I know I do)
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:17 pmMac,
Your hilarious recap almost made up for having to watch that horrible 8th inning.
Great work.
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:38 pm#44–Agreed–both about the horrific 8th inning and Mac’s recap….
This is one of the few games that I have been able to see from start to finish and I cannot help but remember how Joe Simpson began the telecast emphasizing the Braves’ great defense….
July 23rd, 2009 at 6:58 pmmac……..i think the automatic ejection rule says that you cant leave the dugout to argue balls and strikes……..every batter and catcher bitch constantly about the calls but they’d best not look at the ump when they do it. one of baseballs stranger traditions.
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:04 pmPeople get ejected from the dugout for arguing balls and strikes all the time. Several of Bobby’s ejections have been like that. Usually he comes out to argue after that.
July 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 pmSeveral of Bobby’s ejections have been like that.
My favorite kind of Bobby ejection, the ‘Didn’t even have to get off my ass’ ejection. Very high degree of difficulty. He’s very skilled.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:24 pmKind of hard to win any games when the offense can only score one run, but I guess Zito’s strike zone is larger than KK’s today.
How come we can never miss Gallardo when we play the Brewers?
I like the fact that we are complaining about bench players. That means we have really improved a lot!!!
I always think Kelly is a great pinch hitter…and you know what?! He is a career .300 hitter off the bench.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:35 pmI left Norton off the bête noire list partly because I forgot him, but also because I thought he was about to be released. Since he hasn’t been he is the temporary bête noire until he is.
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:39 pmGreg Norton: pinch-bête noire. Anyone see the Braves sent a scout and one of FW’s assistants to the Dodgers and Padres AA game?
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:49 pmAnybody catch Wren in Jayson Stark’s column?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090723
The Braves are leaning heavily toward holding on to Javier Vazquez, but not merely because, as GM Frank Wren put it this week, “I don’t think we’ll be selling.” Clubs that have spoken to them say there are two other reasons:
1. They believe Vazquez has turned a corner under Bobby Cox, a manager Vazquez has always wanted to pitch for.
2. The Braves haven’t seen enough of Tim Hudson yet to be comfortable with the idea of giving up a meaningful piece of their rotation to make room for a pitcher who had Tommy John surgery 11 months ago, even if it brings back a badly needed bat.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:36 pmI prefer keeping Vazquez as well. If anything, let’s make Huddy our closer next season. After clearning all the bad blood (namely Schafer, KJ, and Frenchy), I don’t think we need that huge bat like we desperately needed previous. If we can get Willingham, that’s good. If not, I think we have enough offense to survive if everybody is healthy….but that’s a big if….
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:56 pmHuddy would be a 10+ million closer. No thanks. His stuff isn’t lights out like Smoltz’s was. The dudes a starter, get him healthy and let him start. He wouldn’t want to pitch relief in a contract year anyway.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 pmBOLD PREDICTION.
If we lose five of our next six games, we trade Vazquez.
If we win five of our next six games, we trade Medlen.
Count it.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:30 pmDix, it’s not an ideal situation, but nobody is going to take Huddy. So, either we don’t pick up his option at all or we find a role for him. I don’t want us to trade Vazquez. Just throwing ideas out there you know. Hopefully, Huddy will show enough in these last two months to give us a good idea on what he can do.
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:31 pmI missed this one but I’m wondering why O’Fla. pitched only 1/3 which seems like an odd usage in the 6th inning. Was it injury or bullpen management?
July 23rd, 2009 at 10:32 pmAt 57 just Bobby being stupid again.
July 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 pm@58 Wasn’t Bobby already ejected by then?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:14 amThat Moylan screw up appears to be half Ross’s fault based on what I just read. Chipper said he was screaming at Moylan to go to first and Ross was screaming at him to go to third. He still should have known what to do but you can’t blame him for getting confused.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:59 am#57, I think it was lefty-righty matchups. I’m not sure why you’d need to do that vs the Giants’ lineup, but Bobby has been doing that for 2 decades so no reason to expect it to stop now.
July 24th, 2009 at 6:42 amWhile I hated the ending to a great series yesterday…at least it wasn’t that debacle that was the final game in the first Philly series at the beginning of the season. Geez, that one left a mark. This one just stings a bit.
Brewers, we’re coming to Milwaukee…and we’re bringing hell AND Bobby Cox with us!
July 24th, 2009 at 7:29 amTiger 224,
Do you reckon we could get the Brewers to trade us Prince Fielder for hell? Hell has power: even more than Fielder. But from the Braves standpoint, we have had enough hell for the past several years to last a while.
And mean old Cliff would even trade Bobby Cox for Fielder, but I don’t think the Brewers would go for that.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:39 ammac……..i suspect that Bobbys’ dugout ejections are more for references to the umps mother than for arguing balls and strikes. the rule against leaving the dugout also causes a lot of lengthy, unnecessary visits to the mound. Bobby will wait until the ump comes out to break up the meeting and have a few choice comments ready. sometimes he even gets away with it.
July 24th, 2009 at 7:44 amBobby is never ejected from the actual game, they just ask him to move from the dugout to the tunnel. Nothing changes when he leaves, its just him controlling the game from a few steps lower. I get the sense Medlen could be moved somewhere, I actually like the kid
Moylan has been awful lately, I hope this is from his TJ surgery and he’ll get better. Without Soriano and Gonzo next season, he’ll need to be dominant
July 24th, 2009 at 8:19 amIll defend Bobby on yesterdays ejection, this pitch wasnt close and everyone besides the home plate ump knew it
July 24th, 2009 at 8:21 amThe catcher had to reach up to get the ball it was so high, it was a horrible strike call.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:35 amMedlen hasn’t seemed impressive to me. I wouldn’t complain if he were traded for relief help or a power hitting first baseman.
I don’t object to Bobby’s complaint about the pitch. I just think it’s correct for the umpire to throw him out if he takes the argument onto the field because all that does is delay the game.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:36 amCourtesy of a client, my son and I sat 17 rows back directly behind home plate.
That ump was a disgrace. Mac had it right when he said the strike zone (for Zito) resembled a piece of modern sculpture created by a very angry artist.
Sure glad we gave Chipper a new deal. Between him and Lowe, we’ll be spending half our budget on guys we actually need to replace.
Day baseball is overrated. Hot, draggy and a traffic jam at the end to cap your day.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:40 amI know there is a lot about the journeymen, 26-30 regular players being on AAA squads. But is the gap from AAA to ML now THIS large.
Top OPS at Gwinnett (no limit to PA’s).
1. McCann, 1017
2. Kelly Johnson 900 something
3. DIORY HERNANDEZ (100 + PA’s) 891 + /-
4. Barbaro 840 +
5. NORTON 825
This makes the projection gap seem massive.
The other thing it unfortunately points out, is that the position roster at Gwinett is pure crap. We do have 2 potentially useful players that have done better at ML level (Conrad and B. Jones).
Wow! Heyward, Freeman and even King Kong Cody sure don’t have a lot of competition.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:51 amWent to check on tickets for Saturday night: Gallardo vs. Hanson. Standing room only. Ugh. Won’t be seeing a live Braves game this year.
July 24th, 2009 at 8:52 am69,
July 24th, 2009 at 8:59 amDon’t forget the sunburn.
Weird blast from the past.
Below links to Scott Thorman. He apparently signed with the Rangers this year and either got released or traded and “low and behold” who should end up with him but the Royals. Is Dayton Moore that obsessed with his past?
However, Thorman’s stat line with the Royals in 200 or so plate appearances looks fairly good.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=RF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=429801
Big thing is that his walks and ISO have both come up since he left Gwinnett. ISO, that is probably PCL parks with great hitting characteristics like Albuquerque. But, has our organizational philosophy on “aggressiveness” stunted or altered Thorman’s development by causing his walk rate to drop?
Thorman is still only 27. That seems odd.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:03 amThorman played in Richmond. I’m being picky I know.
July 24th, 2009 at 9:07 amSeriously, Cliff? I don’t think the Royals value plate discipline more than we do. They signed Mike Jacobs and Miguel Olivo. They traded for Betancourt…
July 24th, 2009 at 9:13 amThe Tigers DFA’d Josh Anderson by the way. If anyone cares (doubtful).
July 24th, 2009 at 9:37 amJosh Anderson, ay?
Do we have room for him at Gwinnett?
July 24th, 2009 at 9:48 amWhat possible reason do we have to get another light-hitting lefthanded outfielder?
July 24th, 2009 at 9:48 amHe was more useless than Francoeur with the bat this year. Granted he played in the AL and more than made up the difference with his glove. But he still sucks.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:00 amSorry if I’m going overboard on Tonygate, but this Mets stuff has me fascinated. Here’s a Steve Phillips interview that Metsblog transcribed:
I don’t trust Phillips much as a baseball analyst, but when he started talking about how screwed up the Mets are, I’d say he’s in a position to know.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:01 amMets always have the advantage with Santana on the mound… and today he’s going up against Mac Thomas… err.. Mike Hampton. With the Mets against Hampton the betting has to be on who gets injured first.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:05 am#80
Remember, FWIW, Phillips has an axe to grind with the Mets, and the Wilpons, in particular.
Phillips worked under the Doubleday/Wilpon Regime, until the Wilpons ended up with the team. He was gone the next year.
Common MetFan complaint: The wrong family won the struggle to own the team.
Also, Matt Holliday, apparently, traded to the Cardinals for Triple-A hitter Brett Wallace & some others.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:10 amGood point, Ububba. The phrase “The Mets don’t necessarily believe in the chain of command” is the key to that comment — do you buy that?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:12 amPerhaps, although Manuel definitely takes orders from Minaya. You can tell by the way he backtracks & apologizes for things he says.
But from what I hear, a lot of the Mets dysfunction (aside from Bernazard) comes from the amount of authority invested in Fred Wilpon’s son, Jeff. He’s not terribly respected.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:16 amWallace alone is a very good return for the A’s.
Wonder if Ludwick’s a little more available, now.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:17 amShouldn’t the Cardinals have learned their lesson about trading top prospects to the A’s for a rental?
July 24th, 2009 at 10:26 amThough the Mulder trade didn’t work—was he really a rental?—I’d say they did OK with McGwire.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:28 amLooks like Mulder was traded with one year left on his contract and a club option that would vest given a certain number of innings pitched.
You’re right about McGwire — he was a half-year rental, but they managed to re-sign him to a nice long deal. (Fun fact: Eric Ludwick, one of the three relievers traded for him, is Ryan’s brother.) And none of those three relievers was good, even though Jayson Stark made Blake Stein a column punchline for about five years longer than the joke was funny.
Still, the Mulder deal was just awful. No one could have known he’d break down almost immediately, or that Haren would turn into what he’s become, but that was a trade that started to stink almost immediately.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:38 amIF Wallace didn’t project as a fielder at all (not even 1b, as some have said) then this may turn out o.k. for the Cards.
Before the season, the Cards seemed like the most stacked team in MLB in outfielders. Duncan continued to struggle. Ankiel got hurt and struggled. They moved Schumaker to second, and all of a sudden, they really have a hole.
My contention is that Holliday is barely an above average hitting left fielder. That is what his career away from Coors Field says. With that concern, I wouldn’t have dealt for him. Maybe being around a few competent to exceptional offensive players will help Holliday.
Other solution that may have been better. Pick up KJ and move Schumaker back to the outfield.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:52 amI can’t believe the Cards are giving up that much for two months of Holliday.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:56 amThorman’s stat line reminds me of Mike Hessman’s stat line. Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as a AAAA player.
The Cards think they can grab a pennant if they go all in. And they want to keep Albert happy.
July 24th, 2009 at 10:59 am85,
July 24th, 2009 at 11:02 amI wonder the same thing.
Still, the Mulder deal was just awful. No one could have known he’d break down almost immediately, or that Haren would turn into what he’s become, but that was a trade that started to stink almost immediately.
Especially when viewed against what we gave up for Hudson.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:14 amDidn’t Jerry Manuel assist in running Willie Randolph off when he was the bench coach? That’s the impression I got, anyway. If that’s the case, it would certainly point to the dysfunction that we’re talking about.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:15 amExactly, Jason. If you want to know how Schuerholz got his reputation, take a look at that trade right there.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:36 amI don’t recall Manuel being involved in any internal hi-jinks. FWIW, supposedly, Manuel & Randolph are still friends.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:48 amThere’s a Jayson Stark article talking about the top 9 pitching ace deals this decade, and obviously the Hudson deal is on there. Oakland received the lowest grade (a D-) as for how much they got back to Hudson. It makes Schuerholz look like a genius.
July 24th, 2009 at 11:50 amRob, is there a link to that article?
July 24th, 2009 at 12:01 pmAccording to WFAN, Met pitcher John Maine to visit Dr. James Andrews, never a good sign.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:24 pmNot meaning to be contrary, but a visit to Dr. Andrews can be good because Maine will probably get an accurate diagnosis and a superior course of treatment.
Jim Andrews changed out a knee for one of my aunts (in Columbus at Hughston’s hospital) in the late 80′s. He has earned the reputation and the accolades the right way: superior performance. He has had some health glitches and depends on and utilizes some awesome people, but he is still exemplary.
LSU pole vaulter in college, if you didn’t know.
July 24th, 2009 at 12:43 pmRevisiting one of the very old themes here, I wrote a post on Yahoo Sports about Jim Rice and Dale Murphy, extensively quoting Mac.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:00 pmWell, gosh.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:01 pmNice article, AAR.
I haven’t been online much lately. Is writing for Yahoo the new job you mentioned a little while ago?
Congrats on the new work (whether it’s this or otherwise).
July 24th, 2009 at 1:10 pmThe Braves got one season of Hudson in his last arbitration year. They then signed him to a free agent deal. The team doesn’t get to count the three or more years from that deal. The Braves may have won the trade (I don’t think so), but Oakland didn’t get fleeced.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:17 pmC. Shorter, nope, I’ll be working at a political strategy firm here in DC. Yahoo’s just a little sideline gig I do for cash. But, hey, who wouldn’t want to get paid to write about baseball?
July 24th, 2009 at 1:21 pmI don’t think that all of Hudson’s production since being extended by the Braves is necessarily a reflection on the trade, but it’s not irrelevent, either. While it’s much harder to measure, one definite reason that many teams trade for a rental is that they think it’ll be easier to re-sign a guy they already have than to sign him away from another team.
For Scott Boras clients, this is rarely true. For other players, this can be true. For Hudson, it certainly appeared to be true. It’s possible the Braves might have been able to sign him to a free agent contract of the same price of the extension they gave him, but in my opinion not terribly likely. This is certainly a positive benefit of the Meyer/Cruz/Thomas trade, though, again, much harder to quantify.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:26 pmTerrific column on the hypocrisy of bigtime college sports by Mark Kreigel.
http://tinyurl.com/nsc88m
Nice column, AAR.
I still believe Murphy just misses the cut, but it’s a terrific conversation.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:28 pmI’m not sure if Murphy makes the cut. 8 Year old me thinks he is an obvious HoF. 30-something me looks at the numbers and isn’t sure he quite makes the cut.
One reason I’d question if he makes the cut is that one could argue that if Murphy makes the cut then as he stands now Andruw Jones might make the cut. They have very similar homer/RBI/avg/etc numbers. Murph gets the two MVP edge and Andruw gets the 10 Gold Glove edge. I’m not sure Andruw isn’t an HoF guy, but as good as he was, his drop at his age makes it seem unlikely he’s really HoF if he doesn’t rebound and have at least 3-4 more years like he’s having with Texas.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:38 pmI think Murphy misses the cut based solely on the tremendous erosion of skills — as Mac has said, if he just had a few more pretty good years, he’d be a lock.
Then again, if anyone ever deserved to get a boost from the good-character stuff, it’s him, and if baseball is trying to resurrect the ultimate good guy in the midst of the steroids black eye, he’d be as good a poster child for clean living as any.
I mean, he’s pretty much the greatest role model an 8 year old could ever have.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:41 pmHow much of those eroding skills could be attributable to pitchers juicing at the end of his career? Not that it helps his hall case much (unless it gives some writers an excuse to say “he would’ve been just a bit better and was such a good guy we should have him in the HoF”).
July 24th, 2009 at 1:46 pmIf ever there was a reflection of East Coast Bias in the voting, it’s the selection of Rice over several contemporary players — not just Murphy, but Parker and Dawson. The choice of Rice over Murphy is bizarrely based on Rice having better career counting numbers. And he does have better career counting numbers. On the other hand, they’re not within shouting distance of Parker and Dawson. There’s really no reason to pick Rice ahead of these other players, even if you ignore that they were all far better defensive players; one or more of them is ahead of him in any standard you choose. He’s just there because the Boston media machine, which drives baseball coverage, put him there. And then they claim that he took so long only because he didn’t get along with the media.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:47 pm105 — Not a bad side gig at all. (Sure beats the janitorial stuff and the busy work I do for one of my professors!).
July 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pmCan somebody tell me why nobody on here sponsors the Jeff Francouer page on Baseball-Reference? because that seems like an opportunity for serious amusement.
Edit: Love the sponsor for John Rocker’s page
July 24th, 2009 at 1:54 pmI became much less incensed about Rice being in and Murphy being out when I found out Murphy’s home road splits were very similar. I agree in overall league context that Fenway was a better hitters park (and a park that a player could fit his style to) old Atlanta Fulton County was a lot better to Murphy than “the road”.
As to Andruw, the eras make tremendous difference. 400 HR in Andruw’s career is basically 300 in Murphy’s career. I think the voters at HOF understand how to adjust the new guys down. Think Fred McGriff. If he retires with his career 10 years sooner, he is walking into Cooperstown in the 5th year.
But also on Andruw. He is probably one of the 2 to 3 best fielding centerfielders of all time. I believe he is the only outfielder to get 400 put outs more than once and almost all of the ones that did are legendary (Mays is one. I think Devon White did it once.) And Andruw had about 3 more seasons in the 390 area. Plus, he made the “glove up dive toward the infield” an almost daily occurence (much like Joe Morgan and the “back hand flip”).
I think Murphy is hurt (and Andruw will be) by the HOF voters NOT adjusting enough for centerfield but rather seeming to lump all outfielders together. Murphy’s field value was vastly above Rice and somewhat better than Dawson (who deserves some “centerfield credit”) and a good bit better than Parker.
July 24th, 2009 at 1:55 pmDagblasted spam filter… just tried to edit in the last one and it flagged it as spam…
Can somebody tell me why nobody on here sponsors the Jeff Francouer page on Baseball-Reference? because that seems like an opportunity for serious amusement. (check out John Rocker’s page for an amusing choice of sponsor)
July 24th, 2009 at 1:57 pmRichie Ashburn had more than 400 putouts nine times, including as many as 538. It’s a context illusion from the Phillies’ pitching staff.
Game thread time.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:01 pmMurph was damn good ballplayer – but just isn’t a HOFer to me. Too short of a career, not a high enough peak, not enough counting stats, and rate stats are too low. Rice isn’t one either, but two mistakes would be worse than just one. Raines is the one getting screwed here – not Dawson and Murphy.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:20 pmGreat article, AAR. Congrats on the job.
Based on the past few decades, having Murph in the HOF benefits MLB more than it benefits him.
July 24th, 2009 at 2:41 pm