06 Jul
Ursine game thread: July 14, Braves at Cubs
“Hi, I’m Gwinnett Braves outfielder Jordan Schafer. I’m on the shelf right now with a wrist injury, and you know what? It’s been bothering me all year! Of course, I didn’t tell anybody that it was that bad, because (1) I was a rookie and didn’t want to lose my job, and (2) I’m a baseball player, and we never tell the truth about our physical conditions. You would think someone would have noticed, but I guess not. Anyway, in AAA, who cares? So I came clean. Also, I look like Herbie, the Misfit Elf.”
The Year Without a Santa Claus. I was a fan of the Heat Miser myself.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:15 pmFrom Bill James Online:
The hottest hitters in baseball at this moment are:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:35 pmMartin Prado 107°
Justin Morneau 105°
Hideki Matsui 101°
David Murphy 100°
Prince Fielder 99°
From Tiger224:
the worst hitters in baseball that think they deserve a HUGE long-term contract at this moment:
Jeff Francoeur 127 deg
July 6th, 2009 at 2:40 pmPer DOB:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:01 pmHallelujah.
This means something is afoot, right?
July 6th, 2009 at 3:05 pmWe’re at stage one of a Jordan phase out. Kelly sat for four straight games earlier in the season before returning to the lineup. I expect Francoeur will start the Wed. day game, if not tomorrow.
If they would only have the balls to send him to the minors. He’s not playing, nor listening to TP. I hear Gwinnett’s got an open slot.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:09 pmI read somewhere on the interwebs about a possible Vazquez-Ethier swap. I think it was more speculating than an actual rumor but I would do that deal yesterday.
Might make sense for LA too. They need another top flight pitcher and could then still use Pierre.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pmIt would make sense for LA right now. It would, of course, be incredibly stupid of them, but you’re talking about a GM who traded Carlos Santana for 3 months of Casey Blake.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:23 pmBuster Olney listed a bunch of potential trade partners re Escobar or Vazquez,with the Red Sox being the most likely. None of the possibilities really excite me. He doesn’t see Fielder as an option because he is a Boras client. He mentioned the Dodgers, but not Ethier.
I hope Wren doesn’t make a bad trade just to make a trade. At this point, I’m hoping we find a stupid GM.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:25 pmI’m glad Stenchy’s out of the lineup but I don’t think sending him to the minors will help correct his problems. The fact is he’s a marginal MLB OF and belongs on the bench or on waivers.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:30 pmMarc,
I like the plan. A stupid GM to take advantage of is certainly to our benefit. But Bowden has been fired and Pittsburgh has upgraded. Hmm?
Does Houston have anything we would want?
July 6th, 2009 at 3:31 pmCliff,
JS made his reputation off stupid GMs. Wren is unlucky that there aren’t as many as there used to be.
Re Houston: How about Lance Berkman for Jeff Francouer. Sounds good to me. And throw in Jeff Bennett–oh he’s on the disabled list?
July 6th, 2009 at 3:36 pmApparently the Brewers have called about Vazquez according to Crasnick. Don’t know what I’d want there. Hart wouldn’t be enough, neither would Gamel or A. Escobar in my opinion (though I may be in the minority on that one).
July 6th, 2009 at 3:58 pmHart wouldn’t be close to enough.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:01 pmFielder is certainly intriguing if he’s on the block. The Boras factor only matters if we cared to resign him, which by the end of 2010 we might not.
Fielder would bring the added bonus of increasing our overall team speed. I don’t even think I’m kidding.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pm@ 13
Hart + one of those two.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pmFrom what I can see, Hart might be marginally better than Frenchy but not much.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmHart is not worth anything much.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:10 pmHere’s a post from a (I’m assuming by the name) Brewer’s fan at MLBTR. Normally wouldn’t post, but I actually kind of agree:
I honestly could care less about matt gamel. Mcgehee is playing well this year and Hardy can eventually be moved 3rd when Escobar is ready. Just give the braves Hart and Gamel for Vazquez and throw in some weak prospects to whichever side is complaining. Both teams need these upgrades badly. Anyone who thinks Jeff Francooter is even close to as good as corey hart is a moron.
Posted by: TheCrewOfBrew | July 06, 2009 at 04:07 PM
FYI: Gamel’s combined minor league line is .307/.379/.500
I also think it would be a better package than what we gave up for Vasquez.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:20 pmHart sucks, though. Gamel and Cameron—well, then you’d be talking.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:23 pmAnd the Braves would play Gamel at first or move Chipper to first or … ?
July 6th, 2009 at 4:27 pmI just don’t understand why the organization hasn’t demoted Francouer yet. He has zero trade value, and anyone you might call up to replace him can hardly do worse. Give him some specific goals he has to meet to get recalled (with the understanding he will be in the minors for at least some specified number of games no matter what) and send him down. This would be better for everyone concerned than the status quo.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:30 pmSo the Ricketts won the Cubs sweepstakes. Congrats!!
July 6th, 2009 at 4:31 pmGamel would play RF he has no business being in the infield. He had an .826 fielding percentage in the minors two years ago. That is not a misprint. The brewers would have already moved him to the OF if they didn’t have Braun and Hart there.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:31 pmGamel at first. Or in left.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:32 pmHart doesn’t suck. He’s just either barely below average to barely above average (depending on what stats you use)
Gamel though, would make Kotchman expendable, and also would be a legit sub/injury replacement for Chipper. Could also probably be passable in left if you needed it.
The big question mark in this scenario though, would be Hudson.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:33 pmHe’s worse than “barely below average” if you use the OBP stat. Especially for a corner OF.
Obviously an upgrade over Stenchy, but not close to worth Vazquez.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:36 pmHe doesn’t suck, but he isn’t actually good. That’s better than Francoeur, but not as good as Diaz, and no improvement over ACHE. Hence, not worth much of anything. A low-A arm, Diory, something like that.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:43 pmHart sucks. He’s slightly better than replacement level. He has a 95 OPS+ as a corner outfielder. Last year, his OBP was .300.
Matt Diaz > Corey Hart.
I’d trade Vazquez and a non Heyward/Freeman prospect for Cameron and Gamel.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:44 pmWell, he’s got a positive (although only 3.3) VORP, but I’ll cede the point. However, he’s below most of his projections this year, and I don’t think a marginal improvement would be unexpected.
In any case, as you said, he’d be better than Frenchy…which is a definite positive, and Mat Gamel is a legit hitter who’d we’d have for 5+ years at below market value. Also, it will probably save us around 2 MM this year, plus, Javy’s entire 10.5 MM next year.
I don’t think that is unreasonable for 1.5 years of Vasquez, who, to be honest, is probably at the highest trade value of his career, and at some point, you’d expect to regress (at least slightly) to his career norms
EDIT: though, if we could get Eithier, count me as sold
July 6th, 2009 at 4:51 pmWe can’t get Ethier. Vazquez won’t agree to a trade to the NL (or AL) West.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:58 pmMike Cameron is the most consistent player in major league history. Discuss, or don’t.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pmFair point. Forgot about the NTC.
I guess what it boils down to is Hudson. I don’t think that there is enough room on the payroll for both he and Vasquez next year.
At some point, between the two, something will have to give.
I’ve no problems if the Braves think Tim will be back to 100% and want to cash in on Vasquez while his value is high
July 6th, 2009 at 5:05 pmESPN says that the Phillies are scouting Pedro.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:07 pmI agree with you, Ethan. But Vazquez should have a lot of value on the trade market, and I just hope we hold out for a really good deal.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:09 pmI’d prefer to keep Vasquez and Escobar and trade prospects for another bat. Trading arguably your best pitcher or one of your top 4 hitters isn’t going to make your team better. You should trade away a package of typically overrated prospects instead (most of whom won’t ever amount to anything in the big leagues) like the Braves did for Tex or McLouth.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:17 pmYeah, that Teixeira trade worked out really well. All we gave up was two starters on a first-place team and their top pitching prospect. Oh, and two other players.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:22 pmVasquez is far and away the best pitcher available if the Braves start shopping him
July 6th, 2009 at 5:24 pmRon E, thats why we are where we are. Our team/GM has been delusional for the last 3-4 years and we keep making stupid 3 for 1 and 4 for one deals thinking we may be good enough to get to the postseason. Thats also exactly why we have no one ready to fill in at the MLB level right now
July 6th, 2009 at 5:27 pmper Bowman (good news)
“Look I understand the entertainment value of the rumor market that will swirl over the next few weeks leading up to the trade deadline,” Bowman wrote Monday evening. “But at the same time, I think it’s time to take Yunel Escobar’s name out of the mix.
Teams have certainly called to express interest in Escobar and with his stubborn personality the talented shortstop has given the Braves at least reason to ponder the possibility of moving him.
But from what I’ve gathered, the Braves have zero desire to move Escobar.”
July 6th, 2009 at 5:28 pmTypical Francoeur quote from bowman blog:
When asked if he’d like to be traded Francoeur said, “It’s not something that I want. I just want to play. You can take that however you want to.”
Please go away Francoeur.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:33 pmI agree as well, Stu; however, when you cut out the AL and NL Wests, the NL East, the teams that either don’t need pitching, can’t take on payroll, or are out of contention…well, the options become somewhat more limited.
The possible teams I could see would be:
St. Louis
Cincinnati
Houston
Milwaukee
Detroit
Minnesota
NY Yankees
Of those, I am extremely skeptical that more than half could take on his salary, or the Yanks would even want Vasquez back, after he how quickly wore out his welcome in his first stint there
July 6th, 2009 at 5:35 pmYeah, that’s a good point, Ethan. Milwaukee really does make a ton of sense…
41—An even more typical Stenchy quote from DOB:
July 6th, 2009 at 5:41 pmWould you rather a) pay 100$ for Francoeur to go away forever or b) recieve 100$ to hit Francoeur in the face?
July 6th, 2009 at 5:49 pmtypical???……that quote actually makes sense. especially comming from a guy who knows the door is about to hit him in the ass.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:53 pmBobby just said on WGST that he’ll probably play Francoeur tomorrow, no matter what happens tonight…sigh…
July 6th, 2009 at 5:54 pmUgh. And people wonder why we don’t come down on KJ like Frenchy.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:54 pmIf he wants to play, there’s a team only a county away that’s more his level.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:54 pm@41
Francoeur just wants to play, huh? I guess that settles it. Send his ass down to the minors. He’ll get plenty of playing time down there.
July 6th, 2009 at 5:59 pmThe correct PR answer, Jeffy, is “I’ll do what is best for the team,” not what’s best for you.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:01 pmoh and now the internet tough guys want to hit Frenchy in the face……..thx for the laugh.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:01 pmPer DOB:
I suspected they were just creatively sending him to the minors via DL.
On a side note, Francoeur never ceases to piss me off.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:10 pmThat outfield grass is the longest I’ve ever seen on a major league field.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:10 pmMan, that kid’s got make up.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:20 pmdidnt see that coming…..
July 6th, 2009 at 6:24 pmHere we go again…
July 6th, 2009 at 6:25 pmJurrjens isn’t missing any bats.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:26 pmnext time…just walk him
July 6th, 2009 at 6:27 pmArgh.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:33 pmdammit!!
July 6th, 2009 at 6:33 pm44 made me laugh so hard!
COuld you imagine if frenchy tryed to make that play in right field, he would still be in the ivy
He would never be able to hit the ball that far though….
Sad
July 6th, 2009 at 6:35 pmJohnny Cueto, he of the previously excellent ERA, has given up 7 runs in the first against the Phillies, including a 2 run double from Cole Hamels.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:40 pmThanks, Jurrjens.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:40 pmGod, we suck.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:41 pmDown 4 already, should I bother turning the game on?
July 6th, 2009 at 6:51 pm@48–actually Rome is about 3 counties away
July 6th, 2009 at 6:55 pm@65: No. The way this game is going, we’ll be down at least 7-0 before scoring a run … which will happen after a leadoff double, a sacrifice bunt and a sacrifice fly, as we play for one run with a massive deficit.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:55 pmWtf? I get home from work and it’s 4-0, 1 out in the bttm of the 3rd with runners on 2nd and 3rd? I thought Lowe pitched yesterday?
July 6th, 2009 at 6:58 pmSoto said a badwordddddd
July 6th, 2009 at 6:58 pmPitching has collapsed.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:58 pmwhy do the Braves always fail on ESPN?
July 6th, 2009 at 6:59 pmThis is no bueno.
July 6th, 2009 at 6:59 pmOh I see McClouth had a leadoff single which led to nothing….
July 6th, 2009 at 7:01 pmGlad I was wrong about how the first run came about.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:08 pmThat’s why I’m not a big Diaz fan.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pmterrible at-bat from Diaz – one of his worst as a brave.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pmDamnit Diaz
July 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pmTypical.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pmJust awful.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pmDiaz is better than the alternative — at least his at-bats last longer than one pitch — but he’s a stopgap as an everyday corner outfielder.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:14 pmDiaz has his moments of brillance… yet he also has equally as many moments where he’s swinging with his eyes closed at balls over his head
July 6th, 2009 at 7:15 pmI saw Hank Aaron strike out with the bases loaded once.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:16 pmReminds me of that JPap at bat in Boston. And yes I agree he is better than the alternative.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:17 pmNasty Nate!
July 6th, 2009 at 7:23 pmNate!
July 6th, 2009 at 7:23 pmWhat about moving McClouth down in the order?
July 6th, 2009 at 7:23 pmThank God the Cubs keep giving us outs.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:23 pmHe could get to 30 at this pace. Not bad.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:24 pmI’m pretty sure McLouth leads the team in homers since he came on board. Heck, he’s only four off the season lead.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:24 pmJurrjens looks better, and this pitcher has been hittable. Need some offense.
C’mon Bravos. Just think: WWFND (What Would Frenchy Not Do)
July 6th, 2009 at 7:33 pmHopefully, the answer to that question is “pinch hit with runners on base in a crucial situation late in the game”.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:36 pmPhillies 13-1 over the Reds in the bttm of the 4th….
July 6th, 2009 at 7:36 pm92,
July 6th, 2009 at 7:43 pmLord…
Pinch hit for a pinch hitter with Francoeur. I will never understand.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:51 pmYESSS!!!! Francouer with the infield single!!!!!
July 6th, 2009 at 7:53 pmBunting with McLouth? Are you f&*#ing kidding?
July 6th, 2009 at 7:53 pm………………………………………
July 6th, 2009 at 7:54 pmwhats more mystifying, francouer getting the hit, or bunting with mclouth?
July 6th, 2009 at 7:54 pmSounds like he was bunting for a hit.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:55 pmWhat the hell?
July 6th, 2009 at 7:56 pmWho is the idiot on that play?
McClouth was bunting for a hit…
Prado is about to hit another double…
July 6th, 2009 at 7:57 pm@98: Francoeur, because I reckon we should be quite accustomed to mistifying bunt calls by now.
July 6th, 2009 at 7:57 pmSmoltz line against the weak hitting Oakland A’s tonight:
6.1 innings, 10 hits, 5 ER, 1 BB, 3 SO.
McCann is hitting under .240 against lefties, didn’t know that.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:00 pmWhy is ACHE batting 5th?
July 6th, 2009 at 8:15 pmOh, Kotchman, you rascal.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:18 pmI was mad at Jurrjens in the second inning…
But it turns out it didn’t matter much. Another game where we score two runs.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:24 pmI hate losing to the damn Cubs.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:25 pmIt makes me sad that our losing streak has coincided with the benching of Stenchy.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:26 pm108,
One of the brighter fans on the Sports South Facebook page actually argued that point. Unbelievable.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:28 pmKevin Gregg looks like a short, chubby Kyle Farnsworth.
Rob,
July 6th, 2009 at 8:30 pmYeah, that’s exactly the sort of asininity I expect; ergo, the sadness.
Diaz goes fishing again.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:31 pmJack one, Prado.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:36 pmthis team is a joke… the coaching staff is a joke and there are still too many hitters who just go to sleep in too many key circumstances. I think the only way this team has a chance at the playoffs is either firing cox and TP (which won’t happen) or acquiring a new RF and LF
July 6th, 2009 at 8:37 pmman… prado let that hanger go by. argh.
The cubs did their best Braves imitation (hibernation mode), but pull off the W.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:39 pmDiaz and Anderson are simply not starters at this point. They are great bench players but they won’t produce on a consistent basis. They have far too many games where they look lost and cost the team outs. If they continue to throw either one of those guys out there every game this is going to be another losing season.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:40 pmLet’s not leave out the power outage in the middle of the lineup.
Play Blanco and McClouth. At least Blanco adds some excitement to the line-up. At this point, I don’t know what can be done.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:41 pmRecap up.
July 6th, 2009 at 8:43 pmAnyone know what Kelly’s done in Gwinnett?
July 6th, 2009 at 8:45 pmwho cares what kelly’s done in gwinnett… hopefully he has a long and prosperous AAA career. I wish him nothing but the best
July 6th, 2009 at 8:48 pm