04 Jul
Small-brained game thread: July 4, Nats at Braves
“Hi, everybody, I’m Braves announcer Chip Caray, and I have a brain the size of a walnut.”
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“Hi, everybody, I’m Braves announcer Chip Caray, and I have a brain the size of a walnut.”
I could get used to a Francouer-less line-up.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:10 amlineup reposted (compliments of andrew)
McClouth – 8
Prado – 3
C. Jones – 5
Anderson – 7
Escobar – 6
Diaz – 9
Ross – 2
Conrad – 4
Hanson – 1
i like that we’re keeping the hot bats in. being a day game, this is the best right handed hitting lineup we could probably ask for. i like that bobby is giving conrad a start even if he goes 0 for 4. let’s make it 6 boys. is this game on tv?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:20 amAnd once again, the Sports South Facebook page is good for a few laughs. People are desperate to keep Francouer for some reason and their best arguments are:
1) KJ is batting worse! Yell at him, not beautiful, beautiful Francouer!
2) Terry Pendleton sucks and should be replaced. He ruined Francouer’s beautiful, beautiful swing.
3) And (my favorite) is “His batting average is ten points higher this year!”
Sigh.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:30 amHe’s being pinch hit for, he’s sitting against lefties, it appears the spell has finally be broken.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:31 amI like the signal this sends…but not this particular move. He’s killed Lannan in 15 career PAs.
I mean, I’m not too upset, but I don’t get why the move was made today, as opposed to a week ago or tomorrow.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:40 amWow. Frenchy and Kotchman both sat down. Who replaced Bobby with a manager who is actually trying to win every game?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:41 amWell done, Bobby. What took so long?
July 4th, 2009 at 10:53 amWHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. No more Stenchy.
July 4th, 2009 at 10:55 amI’ve been saying for weeks the only reason he was playing was to try and prop up his already low trade value. Now that no one has any interest (per Stark), BC can work around him more openly and hopefully just bench him completely. I sense there is a deal coming soon for a RF, and then Diaz can platoon with ACHE is LF. With a decent RF, the lineup doesn’t look too bad anymore:
CF McLouth
July 4th, 2009 at 11:00 am2B Prado/Infante
3B Chipper
C McCann
RF ABJ (anybody but Jeffy)
SS Escobar
LF Diaz/ACHE
1B Kotchman/Prado
I’m awaiting the Stenchy trade anouncement every minute now. I just wonder who gave us the dozen baseballs we were asking for.
The only downside I see is that with him, his underwear will be out of the lineup as well.
(In all likelihood).
July 4th, 2009 at 11:03 ammlbtraderumors posted some of olney’s latest trade speculations for our braves. all of them include escobar or vazquez and i like none of them. if we cant trade our crap, then we shouldnt trade.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:23 amWhy would someone want our crap…?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:29 amCuddyer is an interesting name I hadn’t thought of.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:33 amthey wouldnt…
July 4th, 2009 at 11:38 amthink we can just throw jeffy in on the end of a Yunel or Javy trade..dont even ask anything for him just put him in a wicker picinic basket & kinda leave him on their doorstep?
July 4th, 2009 at 11:42 amOlney was simply throwing names out there. Anyone of us could have written that.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:51 am@3 i dont think any of those people have any idea of what run producing or clutch hitting means.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:52 ami really like the nats uniforms today.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:07 pmACHE back to his namesake role.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:09 pmThe only of those that I like is the one that involves a Matt LaPorta.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:15 pmJust a hello to everyone, commenting here on
July 4th, 2009 at 12:20 pmBraves journal live from nationals park. Its a novel concept,
Taking in a braves game without chip or joe breaking it down for me.
But I’m managing.
Oh my God, Rich Harden is single-handedly destroying the pitching stats for two of my fantasy teams.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:23 pmThe game is blacked out on my Extra Innings Package. Does anyone know of another way to watch the game?
July 4th, 2009 at 12:24 pmESPN gamecast..its pains me everyday but atlease i know whats going on
July 4th, 2009 at 12:26 pmI know everyone says that the anderson/kotchman stuff is overlown, and I’m prone to agree,
July 4th, 2009 at 12:26 pmBut sitting right above the braves dugout right now in the
Top of the 2nd, I see most of the team up on the bench in the
To of the dugout, with anderson and kotchman together in the corner.
I don’t know, just an observation.
i go to myp2pforum.eu on blackouts. you have to download tvants and i’m pretty sure it’s highly illegal, but give it a try.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:27 pm@25 their old
July 4th, 2009 at 12:30 pmThanks, Ryan. I’ll give it a try.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:30 pmHmmm, no link next to the Braves/Nationals game. Even the illegal sites have it blacked out. That’s frustrating.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:31 pmi wish i read chinese
July 4th, 2009 at 12:37 pmI like CBS Sports Gamecenter when I can’t watch the game.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:44 pmRyan c. What makes u think we can trade our crap for good players? If this team wants a bat odds are we are gonna have to move some of our pitching i.e vazquez.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:47 pmmlb.com has live look-ins now. maybe try that while having gamecast pulled up at the same time.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:53 pmWhat is Herschiser’s scoreless inning record? 80-something?
July 4th, 2009 at 12:53 pm59, I think.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:54 pmYep, just looked it up.
July 4th, 2009 at 12:57 pm59…scroll to 1988
July 4th, 2009 at 12:58 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orel_Hershiser
Hanson’s getting squeezed this inning.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:04 pmconrad with a prado to prado.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:06 pm#37, the ump squeezed him in the first inning as well. Two fastballs right down the middle – balls! I remember him not getting the calls his last start also. Is he too good or what??
July 4th, 2009 at 1:11 pmYunel!
July 4th, 2009 at 1:16 pmIn Va Beach watching on something called MASN. Dibble is a surprisingly good analyst.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:18 pmThat was a sweet play by Yunel…
July 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pmOk, let’s get some more runs.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:21 pmYea Carpenter and Dibble do pretty well…by the way the weather is perfect here in DC today.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:22 pmhere comes the bunt.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:23 pmred-hot PRADO!!
July 4th, 2009 at 1:24 pmprado is disgustingly amazingly supersweet.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:25 pmhttp://www.freebaseballradio.com/AtlantaJuly.html free radio broadcast
July 4th, 2009 at 1:26 pmChipper, Garrett….the hits just keep on coming.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:29 pmour death by a thousand cuts offense.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pmEscobar, on the other hand, is not supersweet.
There could be a four-way tie for first after Sunday if we win today and tomorrow, the Mets beat the Phillies both days, and the Marlins split their next two with the Pirates.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:31 pmthat would be cool, to be in first and next to last all at the same time.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:35 pmI just tuned in and looked at the lineup, and I have to say that I actually like our team so long as Francoeur or Johnson are not on it. By “like” I mean “think we can score enough runs to be a solid team.”
July 4th, 2009 at 1:44 pmWell, there goes the scoreless streak.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pmWOW…
July 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pmAdam Dunn can hit the ball a long way.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:53 pmTo think that we could have had him for little more than the money we spent on Glavine and Jeffy…
July 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pmNot a bad day at the office for Mr. Hanson, gopher pitch aside.
July 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pmmight be a headline some day: “adam dunn pops goodyear blimp, kills 4.”
July 4th, 2009 at 1:57 pmAnother fine outing for Hanson.
I hope our pen can hang onto it, especially after pitching 5 of the last 6 days.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:07 pmGonzo’s arm is going to fall off. This won’t end well.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pmHa. Defensive Replacement Casey Kotchman.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pmThis does not bode well.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:09 pmgonzalez overused? nahhhhh.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:12 pmThe only positive here is that if this keeps up, Soriano gets the day off.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:14 pmDunn lurking. I don’t like it.
Bobby, maybe we can’t pitch these guys every day.
Do we have more than 3 pitchers in our bullpen?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:15 pmNice bullpen work there, Bobby.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:16 pm@65 – I was thinking the same thing, but he is probably already up and throwing.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:17 pmOr just let Hanson pitch the 8th. It was the bottom of the lineup.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:18 pmGonzo has looked awful for a little while now
EDIT: great work by the pen there.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pmI’ve got a trade for the Natinals – Kotchman and Frenchy for Nick Johnson. Nick doesn’t have a whole lot of power, but he would be very consistent in an otherwise inconsistent lineup (when healthy).
July 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pmWay to go, Bobby. Your willingness to tweak the lineup made the winning streak possible, but your stubbornness with the bullpen ends it.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:19 pmOK, I just did the mental math (sort of) on this. Very unscientific, but whatever.
You know how every (and I do mean every) interleague game, Chip talks about how big of an advantage it is for the NL teams since the pitchers are hitting?
Well, it’s stupid to begin with, but how stupid?
Each pitcher might get 2 or 3 AB’s in a game, and after that it’s pinch-hitters unless it goes to extras (or if a pitcher goes the distance in a blowout or something).
So say 3 pitcher ABs per game (which is probably generous). In an interleague series, that’s 9 ABs. Your average pitcher will probably be in the .100s, so that’s about 1 hit per series (usually a single). If you say AL pitchers are .050 worse on average or whatever, that’s still close to 2/3s of a hit per series.
There’s even a decent chance that the NL pitchers get no hits in a series whatsoever. Heck of an advantage.
.354 (NL) OPS vs. .312 (AL) over the season, .178 vs. 162 in OBP.
.775 (AL) vs. .716 (NL) in OPS for the DH’s.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:20 pmJust great!
July 4th, 2009 at 2:20 pmman,that looked like a textbook double play grounder. where was escobar playing?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:20 pm@70 – Yes, including his 3 strikeout inning last night.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:21 pmAre Logan and O’Flaherty bad enough against righties that they can never face them, or something?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:22 pmHanson was already at 105 pitches.
We’re in a ton of close games because our offense sucks. Sure, all of our decent relievers are overused. Should we have thrown Bennett (aka “forfeited”) more? Tough call to make, but I think you have to go for the win.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:22 pmRyan… The runner on 2nd screened him beautifully
July 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pmway to suck the life out of this streak. argh.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pmBrilliant.
The argument about Cox on the thread several days ago boils down to this, doesn’t it?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:23 pmEven greater!
July 4th, 2009 at 2:24 pmJust getting tweaked to death this inning.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:25 pmThe Nats broadcasters said that the Braves were playing Zimmerman a lot different than other teams b/c normally that’s a double play ball by Zimmerman.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:26 pmcan a manager get traded?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:26 pmNot this stupidity again. At what point in the last 7 games has Cox misused the pen?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pmIf the streak ends today, what a horrible way for it to end.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pm78 – Medlen in the 8th. LOOGY in the 9th.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pmWhat a waste. Now Tommy knows how Javy has felt for the last 6 weeks.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:28 pmYeah, it’s not like Hanson needed 105 pitches to get through seven innings or anything. Conserve a few and maybe you don’t have to go to the pen every game.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm@76 – Include it all you want. He has been charged 6 runs in 4.1 innings over the past week. A nice Kd9 isn’t everything.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pmsam, i hope youre joking.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pmSam, I have been a Bobby Cox supporter for years, but he has consistently mismanaged the pen over the last several years, throwing the same arms out there day after day while letting the likes of Devine and Medlen rot.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pmRon Burgandy: Chip, do you know what love is?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pmChip: I love lamp.
Go get a couple off of Mike MacDougal. This isn’t Mo Rivera.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:31 pmThe appearances are starting to rack up on Moylan, Gonzo, Soriano, and O’Flarety.
Something to keep an eye, BC can’t keep running the same 4 out there as many days in a row as he does. Logan, Medlen, or Acosta needs to step up when (if) they get the chance.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:32 pmThis was Gonzo’s sixth appearance since the start of the home series with Boston. (I’m being generous on the numbers to include his 6/26 appearance.)
The good in that span: 10 Ks against just one walk.
The bad: 1.50 WHIP.
The ugly: 10.13 ERA, two blown saves.
He’s wearing out. And I can’t believe Cox can’t see this.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:33 pmWhat stinks is they don’t get a rest and we may still get a loss.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pmHere’s an interesting fact. Every time Joey Devine pitched in Atlanta, he got hammered. Of course he wasn’t used. He had one good half season in Oakland and then went on the DL. Can we stop pretending Joey Devine was the second coming of Dennis Eckersly?
Kris Medlen is the long reliever. He’s been a starter his entire career and takes far longer to warm up than a natural relief pitcher. He’s not a particularly good option for one inning work. He’s even less useful if there are already runners on base as he gets hit a lot harder from the stretch from the windup.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:34 pmEither the starting pitchers or going to have to start going deeper in the games or Cox will need to start using Medlen, Acosta and the other guy.
And unfortunately Lowe hasn’t been going deep in games.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pmI came back for this?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pmgames appeared in by our pen
medlen in 8
acosta in 12
soriano in 37
gonzalez in 42
moylan in 43
sam, i’d like to hear kris medlen say he takes longer to warm up, not just your opinion.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pmBrooks Conrad lurking…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:36 pmthats it..Mac is the bad luck guy…BOOOOO
July 4th, 2009 at 2:37 pmi,m affraid to say it, but…rally????
July 4th, 2009 at 2:37 pmMcCann PHing.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pmMCCANN!!!!!!! c’mon..i need the RBI’s
July 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pmUh, I’ll take it because he was squeezing our guys too, but that was a strike to McCann.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:38 pmjoey devine got put in games in the worst possible spots.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pmbrooks conrad, cult hero?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pmcult zero…
we need the series atleast
July 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm100 – Sam, the problem is we never would have found that out in Atlanta and everyone knows that. We called up and demoted Devine on a weekly basis and he never pitched.
Meanwhile, our bench was well known to be short.
You can’t blame every loss on the manager, but I cringed when I saw Gonzo out there in the 8th. Comments were made on this board straight away.
It’s not like we don’t know what’s coming. We all know why Moylan’s arm fell off last year and why Boyer’s 2nd half ERA was so much worse than his first.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pmOh, I’m sorry, so Joey Devine was a great reliever if he didn’t have to pitch in difficult situations?! Please. The guy was a college closer who flamed out and then had to have Tommy John surgery. Get the hell over Joey Devine kids. He made John Rocker look dependable.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pmSickening loss…
July 4th, 2009 at 2:41 pm#%*(&#% GARBAGE
July 4th, 2009 at 2:42 pmGonzalez has pitched 39 innings this year. I know he’s coming off of TJ surgery, but if 13 IP a month is too much use, he needs to find a new line of work.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:43 pmA preventable defeat.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:43 pm@113
I’m aware of the fact that Cox has to go to his top three or four relievers too often. It doesn’t take an internet baseball genius to know as much. Bobby Cox knows as much too. But until someone suggests something other than “use Manny Acosta in high leverage situations instead” I’m not sure how knowing as much helps solve the problem of only having three or four solid guys. I’d like to see what Boone Logan can contribute and I’m looking forward to Tim Hudson as a relief ace when he first comes back, but the answer is not Kris Medlen or Manny Acosta. The one is a starter who struggles with men on base and the other is Manny Acosta.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:44 pmBad loss, bad, bad, soul crushing loss.
The braves are going to have to find someone other than the big 4 to get some tough outs when leading.
Happy 4th folks.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:44 pmI’m going to guess that 4 double-plays in the first 8 innings had more to do with the loss than Bobby’s “stupidity.”
Bobby’s stupid when Bennett blows a lead, and he’s stupid when Gonzalez blows a lead. Got it.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:45 pmsam, that’s a garbage statement. why dont you look at devine’s numbers. you make no sense.
another thing, how can you sit there and look at the innings pitched by our relief and not come to the conclusion that booby is misusing his pen. knocking. knocking. no one home.
and no, he’s stupid when he doesnt utilize other pitchers. if medlen or acosta comes in and blows the game, i really wouldnt have been upset. at least it gives gonzalez a much needed day of rest. misusing the pen is bobby’s fault, not the loss, but the loss is a by product of misusing the pen. so, yes. it’s bobby’s fault.
@114
July 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pmhe wouldnt have come in with runners on. remember, gonzo started the 8th inning.
@114 I’m not really clear on what your argument is, or what any of this has to do with Devine. People immediately cried foul when Gonzalez came in the game. He sucked. That Cox has a history of relying too heavily on the same guys, and that his guys have a history of breaking down, lends historical context to people’s frustration. Does this mean Cox is a bad manager? No, not necessarily. But it does mean that he is a spotty bullpen manager, and fans ON THE INTERNET are prone to voice their frustration.
After all, not only did the Braves lose the game but a rested Gonzalez won’t be available tomorrow.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:47 pmOn the verge of reaching .500……
July 4th, 2009 at 2:48 pmJoey left Atlanta and had a 1.50 ERA. Everywhere in our minors he was lights out.
Cox let him rot.
Each year in the last 3, half of our pen is rusty and half is over-worked.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:49 pm@123
Who should have come in with a 2-run lead?
July 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm@122 – You cannot compare acosta and medlin’s innings to Gonzo and Soriano’s – those 2 haven’t been up all year. Bobby would use Bennett all the time, then you would cry that he was using a cruddy reliever. Then you cry when he uses a good one b/c he is overused. Ya’ll just need to make up your mind. The fact is, we need another effective reliever. Period. Then you wouldn’t have to blame Bobby for the entire team’s ineptitudes.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:50 pm@125
Chris Hammond once had a year where he had a relief ERA under 1.00. Relievers are flaky. Joey Devine has exactly one half of a season where he was anything other than replacement level or worse, and following that half season he had to have Tommy John surgery. Get the hell over Joey Devine, kids.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pmRecap is up.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:52 pmSam, one of Cox’s strengths over the years has been managing for the marathon and not the single game. Rendering your best relievers ineffective for the long haul does not help the marathon.
Medlen is the answer, believe it or not. So, is Acosta.
July 4th, 2009 at 2:53 pmwell, josh, why not compare the time frames from the time they’ve been up to now. it’s still lop-sided.
July 4th, 2009 at 3:00 pm