Clutch game thread: April 28, Cards at Braves
Thought of the day:
I do not believe that athletes are better people than us, I do not believe that athletic contests are tests of character, and I do not believe that there is any such thing as an ability to perform in clutch situations. It’s just a lot of poppycock.
Baseball men often like to attribute the success or failure of a team to clutch performances. Those of us who study baseball systematically know that this is largely untrue, that the number or runs a team scores is a predictable outcome of their hits, their walks, their home runs, and their other offensive accomplishments — and further, that the number of games the team wins is largely a predictable outcome of their runs scored and runs allowed. Clutch performance can increase or decrease a team’s wins, but clutch successes and failures generally even out over the course of a season, leaving most teams with about the won-lost record they deserve.
– Bill James, The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract.
New York: Free Press, 2001. 349.
Now see, as always, Bill James states it in a much more reasonable way. His fans turn that comment into “clutch doesn’t exist,” when that isn’t what he is saying at all.
I’d agree that over time, especially when looking at an entire team over an entire season, these things will generally even out. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who tend to perform better in high pressure situations (he says that there aren’t, but then goes on to address a completely different argument.) Again, closers are the perfect example.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:13 pm[Post deleted because it was screwing things up. -- MT]
April 28th, 2009 at 2:14 pmThat was not a clutch comment, Stu.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:15 pm@3: Haha, that has to be the funniest thing I’ve read in here in a while. Definitely failed in the clutch there Stu. You’re clearly not the David Ortiz of blog commenting.
With that, I think I’ve avoided the rain enough for one afternoon…
April 28th, 2009 at 2:19 pmI know, AAR, the “first” thing is annoying. Sorry, Mac.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:23 pmThe thing is, the Braves don’t always even out “in the clutch.” You don’t go 11-30 in one-run games or underperform your Pythagorean expectation by 7 wins — as we did last year — without having some serious fingers on the scale.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:27 pmI have been persuaded by Mr. James that ‘clutch’ doesn’t exsist. However, is there an anti-clutch? In other words does choking exist, and is A-Rod the poster boy?
April 28th, 2009 at 2:28 pmBy and large, if you can’t perform in pressure situations, you wash out long before you get to the major leagues.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:30 pmGadfly,
I’m not arguing against the idea of clutch in general–maybe it exists especially for something like pitching or making putts where you can to a greater degree control the results of your action. But hitting is different–you can do everything right, be as cool as a cucumber and still fail if the pitcher executes. I’m sure some people perform better under pressure than others, but major league baseball players have already had to perform under enormous pressure just to reach the big leagues. And, in baseball, for one player to succeed, another has to fail, but both may be performing equally as well. Hitting is arbitrary in a sense anyway since hitters make outs far more than they reach base. The point is, if you are saying someone is a clutch hitter based on the results of certain at bats, how do you know that the result comes from the hitter’s skill or the pitcher’s mistake. If a guy hits a hanging curve for a home run to win the game, is that clutch hitting or choke pitching?
April 28th, 2009 at 2:33 pmWhether you believe in ‘clutch’ or not, you have to believe in a player’s mentality. Some ball players just have the right mindset for hitting in high-pressure situations and are relaxed. Others may be more nervous or even over-anxious to succeed, which would affect performance. Chipper can perform in high-leverage situations b/c he can stay calm and within himself. Others (i.e. the rest of this god foresaken team) just try to do too much (maybe over-anxious). But either way it results in what many think of as ‘clutch’. In reality, it just boils down to individual personalities.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:34 pmComment #2 was hilarious. Fail! lol
April 28th, 2009 at 2:38 pm11—???
April 28th, 2009 at 2:46 pmChipper has an ability to perform in the clutch because he has an ability to perform, period.
Career OPS – 955
2Out w/RISP – 901
Late & Close – 930
Score Tied – 913
IOW, yes, Chipper is somebody you want at the plate in a clutch situation. But it’s because he can freaking hit, not because he raises his level of play.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:01 pmI agree with Gadfly. I haven’t read the book, but James doesn’t explain here what he means by an “ability” to perform in clutch situations. Does he mean that teams as a whole generally cannot (validly) be characterized as clutch performing? What about individual players? If he means the latter, then I don’t see how a team W-L record supports or refutes his argument.
More fundamentally, there seems to me to be a disconnect in arguing that RS and RA can accurately predict W-L records and, therefore, that success or failure is not due to clutch performances. Clutch performances result in superior RS and RA — definitionally so — and so are correlated with W-L records. James would argue that they are so closely (statistically significant) correlated that seasonal W-L records can be accurately predicted using RS and RA.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:04 pmHere’s a simple test — if you believe there are such things as clutch players, name one. If this ability exists, then surely somebody is famous for a career of raising his level of play in high pressure situations. So who is it?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:09 pmUnderestimating the Fog.
Not to put words in James’ mouth, but I think what he would argue is that there is no evidence that clutch performance is an “ability” — that some players perform better than expected in certain situations — but there is enough “noise” in the data that you can’t say, for certain, that there is no such ability. It is, of course, very hard to prove a negative.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:09 pmI’m comfortable with using the term “clutch” for players who perform well in the biggest games (i.e.—post-season).
Whether it’s them far exceeding their career numbers or equaling already impressive career numbers, it works for me.
It’s not that complicated.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:10 pm#17
Except that only one of those is “clutch” — the other is “good”.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pm15–I discount the clutch business–or more accurately think (a la 16 that there is too much noise)–but players often cited are Reggie, Jeter, and Schilling
I tend to think these are just good players not particularly clutch ones.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:13 pmtoo bad Esco wont let Chipper be clutch
April 28th, 2009 at 3:18 pmDoes make one wonder if there is such a thing as unclutch baserunning? Or would that be non-clutch?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pmHere’s the best write-up of the New And Improved Francoeur I’ve seen:
“As Steven Goldman observed, the “new” Francoeur’s walk rate doesn’t mark him as a vastly different animal from the one who took a brief refresher course on the joys of Jackson, Mississippi, home of the Braves’ Double-A affiliate, last July. The Braves’ fourth-place finish saved the homegrown hacker from an appearance on last year’s list, but the team’s off-season rearmaments may have given him a better shot at cracking this year’s edition, even though he’s unlikely to plumb the depths to which he (and his BABIP) descended in 2008. Standard small-sample disclaimers apply, but Francoeur’s actually swinging at fewer pitches than he has at any point in his major league career, with most of the difference coming from a newfound tendency to lay off of balls outside the strike zone (and to strike them with greater frequency when he does commit). Despite the improvements, he still comes in well above the league rates in both categories, hardly a surprise given his former status as the personification of impatience.
Francoeur has been hitting more balls in the air in 2009, which should translate to an increased incidence of extra-base hits. If he can maintain his career-high contact rate and career-low strikeout rate, he has a shot at a league-average OBP. Unfortunately, “league average” constitutes a problematically low ceiling for a corner outfielder, but unless Francoeur learns to stops swinging and love the walk (an increasingly remote prospect), he’ll continue to bump against it, with fluctuations in batting average determining how much headroom he has to spare.”
- Ben Lindbergh
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8786
April 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pm[Post deleted because it was screwing things up. -- MT]
April 28th, 2009 at 3:25 pm@13 – Or someone who believes in this sort of thing could simply argue that Chipper isn’t a clutch hitter. Pujols:
OPS
Career 1.050
2 outs/RISP 1.167
Late & Close 1.050
His OBP with 2 outs/RISP is over 80 points higher than career (.510 compared to .426)! Great eye, no holes in his swing, and he cuts it down just to drive in the run.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pmI would take a league-average OBP from Francoeur if he puts up a slugging percentage well above the league. Unfortunately, his OBP of .304 is 43 points below the league, and his slugging percentage of .440 only ten points above…
April 28th, 2009 at 3:32 pm#19
Reggie — was certainly successful on the biggest stage several times, but was also unsuccessful several times. In 17 postseason series, he exceeded his normal production 9 times, and failed to reach it 8 times. IOW, any prediction prior to a postseason series that Reggie would shine had just as much chance of being wrong as right. His performance in high-leverage situations during the regular season was practically identical to all situations.
Jeter — career regular season OPS, 845. Postseason, 846.
Schilling — can’t argue with his postseason success, although his “clutch situation” performance in the regular season is in line with his overall numbers. I’m actually something of a believer in clutch pitchers, as they are the initiators of the action. Probably should have mentioned that.
“His OBP with 2 outs/RISP is over 80 points higher than career (.510 compared to .426)! Great eye, no holes in his swing, and he cuts it down just to drive in the run.”
Well yeah, that could have something to do with the 80 IBBs in 592 PAs in those situations.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pmPujols’ SLG% is also 32 points higher w/ 2 out/RISP (.657 compared to .625 career). Does that mean he’s getting those special 2-base IBB?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:45 pm32 points of slugging (an extra base once every 30 ABs—fixed, thanks, sansho) doesn’t strike me as a huge difference in a not-huge sample size. Am I wrong about that?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:47 pmHis SLG is also lower in late & close situations and in tie games. See, that’s the point — if he’s clutch, there should be no doubt.
#27
Actually, that’s one base every 30 ABs.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:48 pmExcept that late in close games you’re facing closers and top setup men, who collectively have ERAs around 2.50.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pmI realize it’s annoying when people say “First!” when they lead off a thread, but why is Stu being ridiculed for lack of clutchness?
April 28th, 2009 at 3:50 pmOK, so maybe that brings him back up to his normal production.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pm‘Cause he said it second.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:51 pmPitchers don’t have standard clutch statistics, but I decided to look at John Smoltz given his reputation as a post-season clutch performer. Remarkable, given that post-season performance is (of course) against the top performing teams each season. I think the reputation is well deserved.
Career
ERA 3.26
W-L% .588
WHIP 1.170
SO/9 8.0
Post-Season
ERA 2.65
April 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pmW-L% .789
WHIP 1.135
SO/9 8.4
Why are we still using Reyes… I never really thought he was that good
April 28th, 2009 at 3:52 pm@32 – If you say so…it was the first post I read this thread.
Plus, an unsuccessful leadoff attempt is only unclutch if it happens late. It’s not like two consecutive whiffs to end it a la the previous thread.
April 28th, 2009 at 3:53 pmIn a nutshell, I just happen to think that hitting, being as reactive as it is, doesn’t really lend itself to clutchiness. Pitching might be another matter — the pitcher knows what he’s about to try to do, and it’s up to him to do it. He’s the stimulus, not the response.
“@32 – If you say so…it was the first post I read this thread.”
Now THAT’s funny stuff!
April 28th, 2009 at 3:56 pmCatz, he’s not and thats a good question. We are trying to buy about 4 weeks out of Reyes before they call up Hanson. Hopefully we’ll still be at .500 by then
April 28th, 2009 at 3:58 pm@27, 28 et al. — I think the point I’m trying to make is that players like Pujols (and Chipper for that matter) are rightly considered clutch players because they perform at as good or better levels when the opposing team is doing everything it can to get them out. Someone silly might be tempted to say that opposing teams are always trying their best to get every player out, but that’s not the case of course — starters having to go at least 6-7 innings, specialized relief, specialized defenses, etc.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:01 pm@38 — BS. Most hitters say they study pitchers and have a plan for every AB. The best hitters know what the pitcher is likely to do (or fail to do) before the pitcher does. And pitchers aren’t robots — skillfully executing their plans to pre-programmed perfection.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:08 pmLike sansho says, the guys we tend to think of most often as clutch are the guys who have had a whole lot of opportunities to do so. Dave Justice had a lot of wonderful moments — and 63 playoff RBI is a whole hell of a lot — but he had so damn many at bats that his overall playoff BA is .224. Cap’n Jetes and Papi have had a lot of incredible moments in October, but they’ve also had approximately a billion playoff at-bats.
On the other hand, Mariano Rivera seems to be demonstrably clutch. How the hell else could he have a sub-1 ERA in more than 100 innings against the best teams in baseball?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:09 pm@41 – I say BS to that. You can’t plan for situations. You don’t know what it is going to be like with the bases loaded and you’re down a run in the 9th. You don’t know how you are going to react. These are human beings, not robots (as you so eloquently put it). Some people know how to react in those situations, and others don’t.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:12 pm“@32 – If you say so…it was the first post I read this thread.”
Now THAT’s funny stuff!
Sigh.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:14 pmWhen you say it like that…”some people know how to react” in those situations, it makes it impossible to agree. If clutch was about knowing how to react, it would be a skill and not a quality or attribute.
Unclutch players know they shouldn’t strike out with the bases loaded, they just do it anyway. Just like how everyone responds when Gadfly posts. Am I to say that you are all therefore unclutch because you don’t know how to act in that situation?
April 28th, 2009 at 4:18 pmI have already said that I don’t consider it ‘clutch’. I said I believe people handle those situations differently depending on who they are. Are they going up there thinking “I don’t want to be the one to screw this opportunity up” or are they going up there “I want this opportunity because I know I can deliver”. Those two mindsets can be the difference between succeeding and failing in those tight situations.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:23 pm#42: Of course, one reaction would be to say that, since you have no idea what things will look like when you’re down to your last out in the 9th, you might as well try to score as many runs as you possibly can with your other 26 outs: hence, don’t do things like trying to bunt, make productive outs, or otherwise play for 1 run rather than for a big inning.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:24 pm@46 – totally agree with you.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:25 pmanyone notice we only have 3 SB’s, next lowest in baseball is two teams with 6
April 28th, 2009 at 4:26 pm@42 — I guess all those great hitter are just liars. Or self-deceived.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:26 pmNo hitter can know the intended pitch, location, and velocity before the pitcher does, unless the pitcher is Kyle Farnsworth.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:26 pm@49 – maybe a little of both.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:31 pmNo pitcher knows the pitch, location, and velocity either. Especially if you’re Niekro or Wakefield.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:45 pmThey know the intended pitch, location, and velocity, which is what Sansho said.
“Vision — you can’t play ball without it,” manager Bobby Cox said.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:48 pmI was able to read Sansho’s post — my point though, echoing my earlier post, is that hitters don’t hit intentions. At least good ones don’t anyway.
April 28th, 2009 at 4:59 pmA more recent Bill James article on Clutch hitting. By the way, we had a heck of a debate on this issue over at the AJC blog today:
“A reader tells me that I have taken so many positions on the issue of clutch hitting that he has given up hope of following me. Well, for the sake of clarity, I have had only two positions on this issue. First, in following the lead of other researchers, I thought that there was no such thing as an ability to hit in clutch situations. Second, thinking more about the issue, I decided that we had jumped the gun in reaching that conclusion—thereby introducing bias into our research–and that we should haved waited and studied the issue more carefully.
Whether any hitter has an ability to hit in clutch situations is a debatable issue on which I have no position. In any season, however, it is clear that some players come through more often in clutch situations, if only because of luck.”
I’m still waiting for ONE scientific study that suggests that clutch hitting is a repeatable skill, that is, hitters possess an ability to preform better in pressure situations. Until then, I have no opinion.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:06 pmA quote from the Nate Silver of Baseball Prospectus: “Producing wins at the plate is about 70 percent a matter of overall hitting ability, 27 percent dumb luck, and perhaps 3 percent clutch skill. It’s your choice what you do with that 3 percent.” Another quote: “Regressing clutch ratings in even seasons against clutch ratings in odd seasons results in an R-squared of .10. Simply put, it suggests that 10 percent of clutch-hitting performance can be explained by skill, with the remaining 90 percent a matter of luck. That’s a much higher skill quotient than other studies have identified. But to paraphrase Bill James, the observation that clutch-hitting performance is random is more true than false.”
April 28th, 2009 at 5:31 pmlineup per DOB
1. Omar Infante, 2B
April 28th, 2009 at 5:41 pm2. Escobar, SS
3. Chipper, 3B
4. Kotchman, 1B
5. Francoeur, RF
6. Diaz, LF
7. Schafer, CF
8. Ross, C
9. Reyes, LH
‘Clutch’ hitting is kind of a misnomer.
Hitters that take a good approach to the plate, swing at good pitches and GET PITCHES to hit, tend to execute in ANY situation. Executing is not just getting a hit, it is also making an out that moves runners over or in.
A personal example: I get frustrated with Chipper because IMO he doesn’t come through in the ‘cluth’. That said, he had NO PROTECTION. He is having to go after pitcher’s pitches or walk in many situations. After reading this discussion and WATCHING games, I am beginning to change my opinion. (He still could be better.)
Those facts, I feel, tend to support 55 and 56 as far as percentages. If a pitcher makes his pitch he usually has a high percentage of success on a given day.
That said, percentages and stats are one thing, but there is still something to be said for WATCHING the games. As a fan, we know who we feel like will come through and who will not come through.
Colin Cowheard (and I hate the guy) made a point one day, he said “I don’t need stats to know Derek Jeter is a gamer, I can SEE that”. There is some truth in that. Stats and fielding/hitting zones are useful tools, but eyeballs still have a place in the game.
Watch the game tonight, especially late if the braves are behind 1 or 2 runs late. Notice the what the braves take and what they swing at. See if they have good approaches tonight. If they succeed I bet they lay off the junk and drive the hittable stuff, or they will execute and get a bunt down or ground ball to the right.
However, after watching this same core group for 2-3 years, I bet they will swing at stuff diving away from them or up in their eyes. They will hit the ball in the air too much and make unproductive outs.
April 28th, 2009 at 5:58 pm#18
I can’t totally agree, Sansho.
There are plenty of “good” players like who don’t come through in the post-season. Does it matter what we call them?
As for the “good” ones who have done it for, let’s say, more than one PS series—Rivera, Rose, Smoltz, Jeter, Koufax, Molitor, Bob Gibson, Brock, Schilling, etc.—I have no problem bestowing them with glittery classifications—clutch, special, bad-ass, king of the ultra-pressurized small sample size, whatever.
I’m not going to attempt to explain it with, “Well, that’s what they do.” For those situations, IMO, they deserve more credit than that.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:06 pmwould you say Tiger Woods is just good or is he clutch?
April 28th, 2009 at 6:08 pmCardinals score one without getting a ball out of the infield. Sheesh.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:20 pmunclutch?
April 28th, 2009 at 6:32 pmSo, what inning will Reyes panic and collapse?
April 28th, 2009 at 6:37 pmI say the 4th.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:42 pm63
It will be in whatever inning he gets past 80 pitches
April 28th, 2009 at 6:45 pmI say send up a pinch-hitter.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:47 pm5k’s in 2IP
April 28th, 2009 at 6:47 pmat least Frenchy has become Frenchy again. Now down to .276 still no signs of power
April 28th, 2009 at 6:52 pmPart of the problem of determining clutch is simply defining it. Situations other than late and close can be clutch; consider the AB by Kotchman and Reyes.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:53 pmReyes has been pretty good tonight so far.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pmHe was even better in his last start — until he wasn’t.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pm68–I guess the critics are no longer silenced–nor should they be since Frenchy’s ops is now around .740
JoJo will probably collapse but I thought he was unlucky giving up the run the first. The hbp was cheap and the grounder deflected by chipper might not have scored Rasmus.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:55 pm10$ Escobar makes a baserunning error.
April 28th, 2009 at 6:59 pmDucks on the pond. Clutchman up to the plate.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pmso we have four 1B showing good numbers with small samples in our system
Barbaro (who must love AAA by now)
April 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pmGreg Creek in Mississippi (never heard of him)
Gerardo Rodriguez in Rome (5hr in 70AB)
Freddy Freeman in Mrytle Beach
sheesh–he did
April 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pmPAY UP!
April 28th, 2009 at 7:03 pmWow.
At what point do we bench the moron for a game?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:03 pmWhere’s Renteria?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:03 pmTechnically, Kotchman did just ground into another DP.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:03 pmIt’s comical at this point.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:04 pmsit him. do something. he doesn’t understand.
we all loved it back when he’d take 2 bases on a walk… but we knew this kind of recklessness comes with it.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:04 pmthat’s just sad
April 28th, 2009 at 7:04 pmYunel just crossed the thin line between aggressive and stupid!
April 28th, 2009 at 7:04 pmWhat exactly just happened?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:05 pmwish I knew what happened
April 28th, 2009 at 7:05 pmWhat is up with Escobar? That’s at least three stupid outs on the bases already this year.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:07 pmNew poll.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:07 pmeasy one there Mac
April 28th, 2009 at 7:08 pmDr. James does arms–anyone know a doc that Esco can see to get his head out of his a$$?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:09 pmKotchman hit another weak grounder with men on base, looked like a regular DP ball, but maybe it was too slow. Anyways, Pujols fielded it and lollipopped a backhand to Greene at second, way too slow to turn the DP. Escobar was running home since he assumed the throw was going to go to first. Greene threw home and they got Escobar going back to third.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:09 pmNice play by Infante, but Chris Kaman was safe at first.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:10 pm“Casey Kotchman grounds into double play, first baseman Albert Pujols to shortstop Khalil Greene to catcher Yadier Molina to third baseman Brian Barton. Yunel Escobar out at third, Chipper Jones out at second. Three out.”
Edit: Oh, I see.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:10 pmIt’d be an insult to Prado to call such putrid play a Prado, so a Yunel it will be.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:10 pmEscobar rounded third too far.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:11 pmThat’s an easy “Aye”.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:12 pmDo they have 3rd base coaches in Cuba?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:12 pmYeah, that’s better. The “Prado” can go back to its original meaning.
BTW, reason #425309745092 to hate Chip Caray. Given a half-inning to come up with an answer to “what park did Ernie Johnson, Sr. make his major league debut in 59 years ago”, he comes up with Jarry Park. In Montreal. In 1950.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:14 pmYay. That’s the first time this year I’ve heard Chip’s “the game will soon be all about speed” speech.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pmThis does not include:
1. Caught stealing (unless it’s one of those things where a blunder is labeled a CS);
April 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pm2. Picked off first;
3. Failed sac flies (unless it’s a popup to the shortstop or something);
4. Things that are clearly Snitker’s fault.
Is Pat Rocket available for SS?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:18 pmI didn’t care for the proposed Peavy trade. I’m beginning to wonder if I was wrong … don’t think so, but …
The 6 year olds on my kid’s little league team are smarter baserunners than Esco.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:21 pmWell, if we traded for Peavy we wouldn’t have traded for Vazquez, who has been a lot better than Peavy so far.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:22 pmWill the chisox give us Lillibridge back in exchange for Esco?
[Not intended as a serious question]
Edit–Poor JoJo has put together a good start but will likely lose yet again.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:25 pmThat Ryan guy is pissing me off.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:31 pm“but will likely lose yet again”
- – definitely – - -
April 28th, 2009 at 7:32 pm#105, I have a feeling he’ll play the outfield tomorrow and save a home run.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:33 pmI stand corrected–you’re right b/c the offense can’t seem to get even a single run
April 28th, 2009 at 7:34 pmWhat do you think, DP here?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:38 pmNope, just a K, then Francoeur comes through.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:41 pmFrancoeur sucks.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:41 pmat least we are showing our flaws in April instead of playing good and Wren thinking this team can compete. Its either get a bat now or play close to .500 ball with good pitching
April 28th, 2009 at 7:42 pmI thought Francoeur was still hitting over .300, but he’s at .269 now.
Is it the Reyes meltdown inning now?
April 28th, 2009 at 7:43 pmNot to belabor the point of ‘clutch vs. luck’, but in a way teams make their own luck in this game by throwing strikes and putting the ball in play with something on it.
The braves don’t put it in play hard at all and that is why the are the most ‘unlucky’ team in the league.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:47 pmThat was hot. Omar has been pretty good out there at 2B.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:47 pmFirst pitch swinging, just what we need.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:50 pmDiaz looked safe to me, then again, so did Greene a while back.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:51 pmSchafer needs to swipe one
April 28th, 2009 at 7:52 pmSchafer’s batting average is now higher than Francoeur’s. Everything else, of course, has been better all year.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:52 pmother than Diaz, Frenchy has the lowest avg in the lineup
April 28th, 2009 at 7:52 pmrepeat after me–Diaz doesn’t hit RH pitchers
Jones might not either but maybe we could find out.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:53 pmFrancoeur has now grounded into 4 DP. Team high.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:54 pmA freaking converted pitcher just robbed us of a game-tying double.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:56 pmWe’re cursed.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:56 pmno jeremy we arent cursed WE SUCK!!! you people are so blinded its unreal
April 28th, 2009 at 7:58 pmJon K,
Lick my balls.
April 28th, 2009 at 7:59 pmThe ball was catchable and he made a nice catch. We didn’t get “robbed”. You guys want to talk about a word that doesn’t exist (like clutch) why don’t you look at the word “robbed” in baseball. There is no such thing, good defensive players make plays, you don’t get robbed of a hit. If it was meant to be a hit then it wouldn’t be even remotely close to a defender.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:01 pmI cant believe Jo Jo had this line
7IP 3H 1ER 1BB 7K
April 28th, 2009 at 8:01 pmMac
can you please ban Jeremy? I don’t appreciate that kind of talk.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:01 pmEverybody just calm down.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:02 pmTony LaRussa OWNS the braves.
He has the perfect game plan to beat Atlanta. The OF plays so far back that it takes an absolute shot to get past the OF, saving the D bases and baserunners.
It is the opposite of what most people do. The Cards know that the braves are not going to dink and dunk them to death. They know the braves hit the ball in the air way too much. The Ankiel catch is an obvious highlight, but the hit Schaffer had would have been a double if they had been at normal depth.
He also is absolutely not going to give Chipper anything to hit. He knows Chipper is the only legitimate run producer in the lineup.
Get used to this. Anyone playing the braves should use this strategy.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:03 pm#127 – good point, however you could be robbed if you’re called out on a play and you were obviously safe. Or if a ball is called a strike.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:03 pmCSG
This is true… That usage of robbed was inaccurate.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:05 pmMaybe we should skip over Kawakami instead of Reyes.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:05 pmcant wait for Bowman’s recap. It will be “hit batsman cost the braves” when it should say “this offense sucks”
April 28th, 2009 at 8:05 pmWhat does Cox see in Norton? Why must he come out of the dugout in every close-and-late game to kill any rally?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:06 pmReyes and Jurrjens should be waiting in the clubhouse after the game with nunchucks.
Dan, Norton hit the ball really well. Ankiel made a great play, or the game is tied and the go-ahead runner’s at second.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:06 pmI hate Bowman’s vocabulary. His game headline tonight was “Reyes goes for inaugural win”
Who in the world uses the word inaugural in that context?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:06 pmanyone know why Hamels was pulled up 5-0 after 4.1IP?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:07 pmhaha did I just hear “the offense has yet to awaken”… like your talking about a sleeping dragon or something. This is like a sleepying bunny… and not the bunny from Monty Python and the holy grail haha
April 28th, 2009 at 8:07 pmThings are getting a little heated in here…hopefully Gadfly will stop by soon to calm everyone down and remind us how foolish it would have been to waive “our best outfielder.”
But seriously, Reyes looked legit tonight. At the risk of sounding like a Homer, I have the feeling he is turning the corner.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:07 pmEscobar (first-pitch?) double play time?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:07 pm“PHILADELPHIA’S COLE HAMELS LEFT THE GAME IN THE FIFTH INNING DUE TO A SPRAINED LEFT ANKLE.”
April 28th, 2009 at 8:08 pmLeadoff walk. C’mon Yunel, redeem yourself.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:08 pmno DP here Yunel
April 28th, 2009 at 8:08 pmBunting? Really? Cool, Bobby. Let’s piss away our outs and play for 1 run. Great idea.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:09 pm“foul bunt”
Here’s a Walk Chipper sign.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:09 pmHe’s bunting. And really, I have to agree, except that he’s so bad at it.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:09 pmmaybe he’s bunting to avoid making a Yunel–though one should never underestimate his capacity to do so
now for another Chipper walk
April 28th, 2009 at 8:09 pmEven if Esocbar gets Infante to second, they are going to walk Chipper with 1B open.
If they don’t, I will be shocked.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:09 pmWow, I just check the game and boy, our offense sucks big time…
April 28th, 2009 at 8:09 pmHey, at least he got the bunt down. BTW, the second baseman was about a foot off the first base bag when he took the throw, not that the umpires care.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:10 pmWell, they’re at least pretending to pitch to him. But not very hard. Next, the LOOGY to face Kotchman?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:11 pmhaha this team is so easy to beat. Walk Chipper… and pitch to everyone else. That’s the game plan to beat the braves, it works everytime
April 28th, 2009 at 8:11 pmThey’re officially treating Chipper like he’s Babe Ruth in a Babe Ruth League… WHAT?!?!? No LOOGY, Tony? Are you feeling well?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pmBobby Cox. What a moron. That is the one time you don’t bunt. Knowing that it will just take the bat out of the hands of your only decent hitter. Hopefully this time it works out.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pmI really hate sac, but with Chip coming up, it’s probably the right thing to do. Tie it up first…
April 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pmAnd that’s the end of the 8th
April 28th, 2009 at 8:12 pmOf course, the cards walk chip….you have to love larussa…
April 28th, 2009 at 8:13 pmhey–no DP!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:13 pmWhy do people still cheer for Francoeur?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:13 pmWait, when does larussa put the pitcher back to the ninth spot?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:14 pmCan Francoeur be CLUTCH?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:14 pmhahaha maybe the only remedy for this is to laugh. I don’t think you can have a worst 9 man lineup
April 28th, 2009 at 8:14 pmMatt Diaz will either strike out swinging at a bunch of balls or make a first-pitch out.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pmWell Jon, I still love Chip.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pmFrancoeur walks! Diaz, your turn.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pmand it sets it up for a huge huge Diaz strikeout
April 28th, 2009 at 8:16 pmWow, Frenchy doesn’t suck for once!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:16 pmHe’s due.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:17 pmI wouldn’t throw Diaz one strike… diaz will either strikeout swinging at balls, or will ground out or pop out swinging on a terrible pitch
April 28th, 2009 at 8:17 pmThis is a clutch situation
April 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pmTake one for the team! Yes, off the helmet!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pmIll take a walk
April 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pmWOO-HOO!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pmAnd there’s a piece of clutch luck for Matt Diaz.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pmDiaz = clutch!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pmYay? I like the result, but that was obviously Ball 4.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:19 pmAttaway Matty D!
Chris Kaman, you suck!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:20 pmhahaha they were actually rooting for a hit batter
April 28th, 2009 at 8:20 pmCLUTCH!!!!!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:20 pmI guess you can call that clutch, ha
April 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pmI’ll use another baseball slang word like clutch… that was a seeing eye single
April 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pmI knew Diaz was due! Go Matt.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pmAgain, referencing my earlier post, if you take good, patient ABs, get bunts down, you make some ‘luck’ like Diaz did just there. Quality AB with a positive result.
In a word, that was clutch!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pmClutch = Diaz
April 28th, 2009 at 8:21 pm2 runs on 1 hit. Thanks, Kyle McClellan.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:22 pmSo, will it be Soriano for the 9th?
Nope, Gonzo.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:25 pmWas that more clutch hitting by diaz, or a lucky result after a grounder?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:26 pmWe almost got Kyle McClellan yesterday too, but we got the two out hit today and not yesterday. That’s the difference.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:26 pmGood sign……..Gonzo is back to 95 on the peachtree gun.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:28 pmKaman
Khalil
I think I have something here.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:28 pmI am fine with either Sori or Gonzo.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:28 pmYou know, Pujols isn’t going to do it, but it seems like Gonzalez would be really easy to bunt on.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:30 pmSee ya, Poo holes.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:31 pmgonzo has looked like his old self
April 28th, 2009 at 8:31 pmPujols for his career has an .832 on-base percentage (and a .701 slugging percentage) after getting a 3-0 count.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:32 pmChris Guccione has a serious ego. not just based on that last call, but every game i have seen him umpire.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:32 pm2-1, 9 hits total. That’s a ’91 game.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:33 pmi mean when moylan, sori and gonzo are healthy and pitching as well as they have shown they are the 3 best in the majors (meaning the combo of the 3)
April 28th, 2009 at 8:34 pmThat was fun to watch and fun to chat about.
I am going to go lift to burn off some energy.
Good night everyone.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:34 pmPretty sweet win there.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:35 pmCan we sign Gonzo to a long-term deal?
April 28th, 2009 at 8:35 pmThe braves needed that clutch win to build momentum and to fire the guys up.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:36 pmlater folks… I can’t wait to read the post game blog about the CLUTCH performance haha
April 28th, 2009 at 8:38 pmLet’s not forget…a very good game from JoJo!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:38 pmit’s fun when gonzo is on
April 28th, 2009 at 8:39 pmnice clutchiness Matt
April 28th, 2009 at 8:43 pmRecap is up.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:43 pm