29 Jul
Worst team in baseball game thread: July 29, Cards at Braves
Writing this Tuesday night. Don’t know if anything has happened. The Braves suck big time. Recap will probably be delayed, as I have things to do.
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Writing this Tuesday night. Don’t know if anything has happened. The Braves suck big time. Recap will probably be delayed, as I have things to do.
Stu… dealing with the Dodgers intrigues me too. Especially if LaRoche can be had as a throw in.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:53 pmAt least the next few days of the Texieria tango will be interesting. I was just talking to a fellow Braves fan here at work. Chipper, McCann, Jurrjens and Escobar. Thats it for good players. Dang.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pmlast thread from hankonly…
So, is there just NO chance that we could re-sign Tex and build around him?
Tex isnt giving us any kind of discount. If we can beat the two draft picks through trade then we trade him. If we cant, we still have the chance to resign him this offseason. However, this team has wayyyy to many needs to be shelling out $20+ to one player
July 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pmYou either have to include both Escobar and KJ or neither in such a list. I don’t understand this disparity between their perceived value by some.
c.shorter,
July 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pmI doubt we could get Loney. But something like Teixeira and Ohman for Kemp and LaRoche doesn’t look unreasonable (considering that the Dodgers have shopped both of those guys at various points already) and should at least be close enough to be workable. That’s what I dream the situation is like, anyway.
In answer to the question at the end of the last thread, I’m convinced we could re-sign Tex if we were willing to play ball with him. I don’t share the sentiment that many did on here that he wanted to play in New York anyway and there was nothing we could have done to keep him. If we were offering a contract with numbers that were up there with what the Yankees and Mets will offer, I think he’d re-sign with us, but it would seriously hamstring us, especially since we’ll have to rebuild various parts of the team next year. Spending around half of our available payroll on one guy doesn’t make much sense at this point. Perhaps if the outfield had solidified this year, we would have only needed to worry about the pitching staff and it might have been worthwhile. But as it turned out, I just really don’t see that it’s worth it. There’s too much to fix.
And incidentally, I really like the Kotchman deal that’s being rumored because it allows us to not worry about first base for next year so that we can spend our time and energy on the outfield and the pitching staff, which is really what we need to be worrying about. Kotchman may not be an All-Star or anything, but he’s a competent Major League level first baseman who we can count on to produce at a relatively decent pace. I guess if we got Loney from the Dodgers, that would work the same way.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pmWang Nady and Cano. Anything less and I hope Wren gets fired.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pmIn normal circumstances, I would say Kemp is untouchable, if only because his ceiling is Grady Sizemore-high. But whenever Ned Coletti is prominently involved, ‘normal’ goes out the window. That said, he’d have to be legitimately nuts–and I mean, certifiable–to trade LaRoche AND Kemp. But he may trade LaRoche, who is, after all, blocked for like the 73rd time in three years.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pmHowever, this team has wayyyy to many needs to be shelling out $20+ to one player.
Just not sure about this.
(1) We will have roughly $40M to spend (not including a possible Smoltz or Glavine return).
(2) The FA market is weak. It’s either high-priced guys or scrubs, mostly. You’ll need at least one, probably two, of the high-priced guys to make it worth spending any money at all, IMO, and why not make Teixeira one of them? Is he really going to be that much more expensive than Sheets, Sabathia, Dunn, etc.?
(3) We could acquire some parts via trade, but we only have so many tradeable assets. Acquiring one impact player would likely deplete resources enough that no others could be traded for.
I dunno. In theory, I kind of agree that I don’t want a non-HOF 1B tying up 20% or more of our payroll. But in practice, signing Teix might do more to help us be competitive than the alternatives.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:06 pmNow is optimal time to get Renteria. I’d trade Infante for Renteria straight up. Renteria likes to have bounce back years with NL clubs following disappointing ones with AL franchises. The Tigers have had Infante before so he’s a familiar face, good for morale (I assume).
The curse of Renteria is clearly that, unless he’s on our team, all pitchers will go on the DL with major injuries. Except for Jurrjens, because he was exchanged for Renteria, so the curse has no effect on him.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:10 pmi agree with Stu here, Tex for 5 years is not a bad deal. We need alot of help, we trade him, we have to replace him, pus 2 outfielders, a decent backup catcher, a true utility IF to play the 40 games chipper misses, 2 SP and probably more bullpen help if we trade Ohman.
If we do not get starters back there is no reason to trade him, negotiate now, give him basically what he wants and let the team and fans know that we are here to win and not pinch every single penny.
He will be gone though, and I think we will get crap in return.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pmHampton, Teix and Francoeur to the Marlins for Andrew Miller and Jorge Cantu
July 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pmThat is a horrible suggestion, Dix.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:23 pmTex is going to ask for seven or eight years, I’m guessing.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pmThe only argument I have against Tex is that he is an extremely slow starter. He is doing really good now – but that isn’t helping us at all. If he were anywhere near decent the first 2 and 1/2 months of the season, we would be in the thick of the race. An elite player shouldn’t be mediocre for half the season – it hurt us bad.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pmDude, even if we were currently in the thick of the race, it would be an illusion. Look at our roster. We wouldn’t make the playoffs if we had a 10-game lead right now.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pmI’m not saying we’d win anything if he had played well early – I’m saying he cost us ALOT of games (and won us alot of games recently). He is a great player, but not for an entire season. Do we want that same thing to happen next season? And the season after?
And to be honest, I wouldn’t mind if we re-signed him considering our options. I was just throwing the argument out there. I was VERY frustrated w/ him early this season.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:35 pmReposted from last thread:
Seriously, Leeds, what good would Yates have done us this year?
Not much, admittedly, when you get right down to it. But having him in the bullpen instead of Resop might have helped win a few games early, and having another arm that Bobby could have trusted might have helped keep the pitching together longer.
That being said, the injuries that have hit the rotation would have doomed this season no matter what. And the crummy outfield also would have doomed this season no matter what. So a relief pitcher doesn’t make or break the season.
All I was saying, though, is that looking back at the end of spring training, with 20/20 hindsight, makes it crystal clear that Chris Resop sucks. And I think we can all agree on that.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:49 pmYou either have to include both Escobar and KJ or neither in such a list. I don’t understand this disparity between their perceived value by some.
Agreed. I included neither in a similar list earlier. Escobar and KJ, to me, are all things considered the epitome of the average major league starter at their respective positions. They could each do a little better, or a little bit worse, but they’re more than likely to be right around the middle. That’s no knock on either of them.
And so whether you include them depends on how you define good. My definition was intended as “actively getting you closer to being a championship team”, so I excluded them. If you mean “good enough to keep a starting job”, then they belong on the list.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pmSo, according to Jon Heyman, the Rays are probably willing to include Carlos Pena in a deal for Teixeira, but he still thinks the D’Backs are the favorites, with their proposed deal of Tracy and not Jackson, Parker, or Scherzer.
Why in the world would we want Tracy instead of Pena? I swear, if this Hudson injury leads Wren to believe he needs something like Billy F. Buckner, I may switch allegiances.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:00 pmSansho, you do know that Escobar is the highest rated defensive SS in the league, right?
Top five defensive shortstops so far this year by plus/minus:
1. Yunel Escobar +21
2. J.J. Hardy +15
3. Omar Vizquel +10
4. Mike Aviles +8 (this one surprised me)
5. Erick Aybar +7
(h/t Justin Seth @bbtf)
that ain’t average.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:01 pmI think Esco is better than an average SS. I also say this w/o looking at any stats. But he gets on base alot (your perceptions may be clouded by the fact he has been injured a bit this year). Factor in that he has well above-average defense, and I’d put him as one of the best in the majors. Top 10 for sure.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:04 pmAn orderly retreat beats the living stew out of a full-on desertion. Orderly retreats often allow a quick return to the battle.
We all know we’re in a major transition. Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, and Chipper are soon to be treasured memories.
Bobby Cox has no more than one more year in him.
If we blow everything up with just McCann to build upon, we’ll be the Royals with a slightly better payroll.
I say we go to Tex and tell him that we want to build around him and McCann as the new staff gets in place and youngsters such as Escobar, KJ, et al are allowed to grow at a normal pace.
By the way, what’s Hermida’s contract status?
July 29th, 2008 at 4:04 pmHe becomes arbitration-eligible this offseason, just like Francoeur.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:08 pmI think Escobar and KJ are both above average. KJ might not look as special in a division that includes Uggla and Utley, but those guys are way above average.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:10 pmI’d do Teix for Pena straight up. I’d even throw in Francoeur, KJ, Kotsay, McCann, Hampton, and Ohman for them to add D. Price to the deal.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pmI know he’s a good defensive SS — that’s what makes him an average overall starter, in my opinion. I’d still rather have Rollins, Ramirez, Reyes, or Hardy, with Escobar in the mix with several others for fifth. I’m not knocking him (at least, I don’t think I am).
July 29th, 2008 at 4:11 pmTeix doesn’t really have the body type that I envision aging well. I think his decline phase will be quick and steep.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:12 pmHardy? Really?
July 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pmThere are a few players on our roster that seem to be undervalued by quite a bit around here. Mainly I state my case with Escobar. But Infante has done an excellent job as the team’s main utility guy. I think someone from the last thread stated that was a big hole for us (not the case – we need a big bat off the bench, not a utility guy). KJ is average now, but I do believe he as the potential to be much better. Soriano also appears to be grossly undervalued.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:14 pm“that’s what makes him an average starter”
“Escobar is in the mix with others for fifth behind Rollins, Ramirez, Reyes, & Hardy”
These two statements in the same post!?! does. not. compute.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm@26 – so you are saying that your 5th best shortstop is league average??? You do know there are 32 teams in the league, right? #5 would put him WELL above average – even for you.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pmDix, seriously, where are you getting these terrible, terrible ideas from?
I swear, everytime I’ve read a hypothetical trade that confused the hell out of me in the last two threads, it’s been you.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pmTo me, yeah. I like his power.
Just to be clear, I LIKE ESCOBAR!
July 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pmIn. The. Mix. For. Fifth.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pmDix barber told me the Red Sox want to exersize Many’s option and send us Yuk and Manny for Tex.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:20 pm@34 – LOL, I caught that, just didn’t think it helped my argument any – so I left it out.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:20 pmStill would put him well above average. (which he is by the way.)
After reading all the posts about Escobar and KJ the past few weeks, what kind of production are you people expecting from the middle infield? It’s ridiculous.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:21 pmThey have been seeing way too much of Utley and Ramirez, Douglass. Can be the only explanation.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pmDix is the Big Ten of trade proposers.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:24 pmHe walks a bit, but Carlos Pena is a .240 hitter, NO THANKS. I’d rather have Tracy and Scherzer or Parker than Pena.
When healthy, IMO Esco is a much better player than KJ. Despite what this board wants him to be, KJ is just an average player.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:27 pmActually, they’re doing about what I would expect from them. Which is to be about average as starters.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:28 pmI wouldn’t make either KJ or Escobar untouchable. But I wouldn’t be looking to trade them, either. Were I the GM of the Braves, they’d be a lousy team.
Oh, wait, that’s not what I meant to say (although it’s true). I meant to say that I’d have to be bowled over to trade Escobar, KJ, and most of the other younger players.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pmChief,
July 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pmAs noted, all reports indicate that Parker and Scherzer are unavailable.
Despite what this board wants him to be, KJ is just an average player.
Well if you say so…
July 29th, 2008 at 4:31 pmI think Mac needs to do an analysis of just how “average” Escobar is. I think you’d be suprised.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:32 pmIt seems like lots of people are lost in the forest and can’t see the trees. They are all around you.
For the year we are clearly above average:
catcher,
3rd base,
1st base
SS (above average defense, near average offense or maybe slightly better)
starting pitching (despite the injuries, to this point. Look at ERA, total runs allowed, OPS allowed).
We are average:
2nd base
bench (Infante / Gotay / Norton, but Hamster hurts).
We are below average:
right field
center field
left field.
Do we see a trend?
July 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pmOutfield Sucks!!!!
July 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pmAre we really below average in center? I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t doubt that Kotsay and Blanco have put up roughly average CF numbers. We were just spoiled by Andruw, and the fact that we aren’t getting anything from the corners might make it look worse than it’s been.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pmLook I realize Price is supposed to be a stud, and I know we have some Vandy fans on this board, but yeesh…including McCann in any deal, especially one for a prospect (which is still all Price is at this point), is just silly. I, as a Tennessee fan, would have loved to have Todd Helton back in his heyday, but I wouldn’t have been willing to give up half the team for him. And I’m talking when he was a borderline MVP candidate, not when he was a AA prospect. Get a grip, guys.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pmI don’t care what contrived, artificial SABR statistics you can dredge up on KJ, he is a .275 12 HR guy with average or below average defense. In other words, an average MLB player of the modern era.
In the 50s and 60s at 2B he would be a star, but not now when we’ve got 2B and SS hitting 40 homers a year.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pmAlso, KJ is 8th among 19 qualifying 2Bs in MLB in Runs Created. He’s above average.
Escobar is 12th among 19 qualifying shortstops in MLB in Runs Created. Offensively, he’s below average.
Escobar obviously has the defensive advantage (he’s much better and plays a tougher position), and Escobar is a year younger/further from free agency, but KJ’s offensive edge is very real.
Finally, LOL at the notion of “artificial statistics”.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:43 pmStu,
Yes we are below MLB average in CF and below A+ ball average in RF and below AA average in LF.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pmWhen looking at the team as a whole, it is remarkable to think about how much power we lack. The only people I’d classify as power-hitters are Chipper, Tex, and McCann. The rest are OBP and singles guys. Now, I wouldn’t necessarily say that is a problem – but if you don’t have power, you HAVE to have speed. And even with Blanco, we just don’t have enough.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:44 pmI heard that the LA earthquake today was caused by 10 million people slapping their heads & fainting, after ESPN unwisely reported a Jeffy for Kemp trade.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pmCorner outfielders. It all comes down to the corner outfielders. They suck.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:47 pmI don’t care what contrived, artificial SABR statistics you can dredge up on KJ…
Well then I don’t care to try to explain to you why you’re off base.
now we’ve got 2B and SS hitting 40 homers a year
July 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pmAccording to BPro, the average NL CF puts up a line of .262/.329/.420.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:49 pmWe know we lose Teix for next year. We also lose Ohman unless he accepts arb. So, what do we have to do?
1. Look at the age curve and pay attention to it. Esco and KJ SHOULD both be better next year. Actually that would indicate McCann and Francoeur would as well, but Mc is too far up already and I have ceased to believe Francoeur can break out of this (because he won’t admit he has a problem).
Likewise, in pitching, Chuck James, Reyes, Morton and Jurrjens should all be at an improving stage. Campillo is older in years, but not in experience. By trade or FA we need to add a REAL starting pitcher. (Hudson will be filling Hampton’s role if he has surgery. Salary 13 million, production: 0. So adding another starting pitcher FA is almost out ofthe question ).
2. Think about health hard on trads and free agency. We can’t afford to pay big salary to people likely to get hurt. Sheets, Harden, Manny, whoever. Pay more for younger, healthier guys.
3. Start at the bottom (the outfield) and work from there. We need to move Francoeur out of the way. We can pay him a 1 mil to 2 mill arb to give him a chance to get his act together. We cannot count on him playing every day or allow it if he doesn’t get himself fixed. Blanco is a mediocre lead off hitter and mediocre fielder in left (bad in center). [where is Matt Diaz and what is up? He hasn't played again since 7/23 and was supposed to be in Atlanta yeterday for the Dr. to look at him again. Is he done?]. Kotsay is gone and is not viable for next year (to offer arb I think we have to offer at least 5.6 million and with his back that is outright stupid). B. Jones and Josh Anderson haven’t dominated AAA and show little promise (Anderson as a defensive replacement / 4th outfielder maybe). Schafer has actually hit righties like a mad blacksmith since the end of his suspension, but his .500 OPS against righties AT AA is a sign he needs more seasoning. He might be a round about platoon partner for Diaz next year if we can find the 2007 Matt Diaz. This is the problem area and it needs a major infusion.
And no middling fixes (unless young and cheap on salary). Like Juan Rivera. His career OPS is around where Franoeur’s was in 2007. He is 32. He isn’t any better than Blanco, Anderson, B. Joens, whoever. If they are over 27 or so and if they are expensive, only play if they are healthy and substantially above average.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pmWe know we lose Teix for next year. We also lose Ohman unless he accepts arb. So, what do we have to do?
1. Look at the age curve and pay attention to it. Esco and KJ SHOULD both be better next year. Actually that would indicate McCann and Francoeur would as well, but Mc is too far up already and I have ceased to believe Francoeur can break out of this (because he won’t admit he has a problem).
Likewise, in pitching, Chuck James, Reyes, Morton and Jurrjens should all be at an improving stage. Campillo is older in years, but not in experience. By trade or FA we need to add a REAL starting pitcher. (Hudson will be filling Hampton’s role if he has surgery. Salary 13 million, production: 0. So adding another starting pitcher FA is almost out ofthe question ).
2. Think about health hard on trads and free agency. We can’t afford to pay big salary to people likely to get hurt. Sheets, Harden, Manny, whoever. Pay more for younger, healthier guys.
3. Start at the bottom (the outfield) and work from there. We need to move Francoeur out of the way. We can pay him a 1 mil to 2 mill arb to give him a chance to get his act together. We cannot count on him playing every day or allow it if he doesn’t get himself fixed. Blanco is a mediocre lead off hitter and mediocre fielder in left (bad in center). [where is Matt Diaz and what is up? He hasn't played again since 7/23 and was supposed to be in Atlanta yeterday for the Dr. to look at him again. Is he done?]. Kotsay is gone and is not viable for next year (to offer arb I think we have to offer at least 5.6 million and with his back that is outright stupid). B. Jones and Josh Anderson haven’t dominated AAA and show little promise (Anderson as a defensive replacement / 4th outfielder maybe). Schafer has actually hit righties like a mad blacksmith since the end of his suspension, but his .500 OPS against righties AT AA is a sign he needs more seasoning. He might be a round about platoon partner for Diaz next year if we can find the 2007 Matt Diaz. This is the problem area and it needs a major infusion.
And no middling fixes (unless young and cheap on salary). Like Juan Rivera. His career OPS is around where Franoeur’s was in 2007. He is 32. He isn’t any better than Blanco, Anderson, B. Jones, whoever. If they are over 27 or so and if they are expensive, only play if they are healthy and substantially above average.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pmDo any of you rely on your eyes anymore for anything or do you only rely on what Rob Neyer, Pete Palmer, or Bill James tells you? No flame, but just a question.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pmCasey Kotchman has been pulled from pre-game warmups, FWIW.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:53 pmThanks, Jeremy.
It looks like we’ve been a touch below average in CF. Had Kotsay (95 OPS+) remained healthy, that would be different, but that didn’t happen, obviously.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pmAre we not going to have Smoltz for next year? I thought he said he was going to try and come back. I know that he is a maybe, but even after surgery I think he’d be one of the best pitchers in the league. I wouldn’t count him out.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pmHey Chief, can you name me a single second baseman or shortstop in baseball today that has hit 40 HR in a year?
July 29th, 2008 at 4:56 pmI hate to say this, but I wonder if it’s best for the Braves not to rely on Smoltz next year. I’m concerned we’re gonna pull a “Hampton in 2007″ and rely on him for a big rotation spot, and he’s going to come up lame.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:58 pmChief,
Yes, I watch a lot of baseball. I’m actually relatively new to the SABR stuff (less than 3 years). It’s sort of dumb to just ignore the obviously-meaningful statistics, though.
So, trade’s done. Kotchman and a relief prospect. Blech.
July 29th, 2008 at 4:59 pmtex to the angels for kotchman and another player.
according to http://tinyurl.com/6dhyg5
edit: looks like stu beat me to it
July 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pmGiven our luck, Kotchman probably fouled a ball off of his ankle and broke it.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pmNever Mind…
July 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pmESPN reports that the Braves traded Tex to the Angels!
July 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pmSorry for the double post. The site has been running slow today and went down a couple of hours ago.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pmIf the Braves rely on Smoltz for anything next year they are all on drugs.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pmIf we get Carlos Pena or Chad Tracy in a trade for Tex get ready for mid 80’s redux.
Stark is reporting that it’s Kotchman and someone else for Tex–that it’s “in the works” and being finalized.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pmSo we got Kotchman?
What’s the deal with this pitching prospect?
July 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pmMeh. Unimpressed.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pmDude on MLB.com says it’s Stephen Marek, apparently a reliever, rated by Sickels as the Angels 9th-best prospect and listed 99th among his pre-season Top 100.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pmBetter than that godawful deal for Chad Tracy and Micah Owings, et al.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pmStephen Marek? Ok minor league experts…what up with this guy?
Yikes!! No power at 1st base with Kotchman…
July 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pmThis all I see from Stark’s blog:
“Angels first baseman Casey Kotchman was pulled off the field during pregame warm-ups this afternoon at Fenway Park. And there are strong indications he is about to be traded to the Braves for Mark Teixeira, according to a source with knowledge of those discussions. Details are still being finalized, and additional, lesser names are expected to be involved. But Kotchman for Teixeira is the core of this deal.
The latest: A second source with knowledge of these discussions says the Braves will get Kotchman, plus a second lesser name, for Teixeira in a 2-for-1 deal.”
July 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pmThis guy is reporting we got Kotchman and Stephen Marek a relief prospect.
http://trades.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/07/teixeira_for_kotchman_marek_cl.html
July 29th, 2008 at 5:05 pmI’m open to persuasion, and I have no idea what other offers were on the table, but my initial reaction is disappointment. Though I guess we got our first baseman for next year, for better or worse.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pmMore on Marek:
BA rated him 6th among Angels prospects coming into the season. They projected him as a middle-of-the-rotation starter, so apparently the Angels just moved him to the ‘pen this season. I’m guessing we want him back in the rotation.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pmSome numbers on Marek.
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Stephen%20Marek&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=447821
If the earlier reports on his velocity are right, he has a good shot at being as good as Boyer (before Bobby blew his arm off).
July 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pmI agree with you ,Douglass.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pmI guess I was hoping we’d get a lot more, but that’s not bad. Kotchman is under control for a while and is a good player. And Marek . . . I don’t know anything about him, but altogether it’s better than taking our chances on a couple of draft picks.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pmTex to LAA, details to follow
July 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pm4:50pm: Jayson Stark has the scoop – Mark Teixeira is headed to the Angels for Casey Kotchman and another player. MLB.com’s Lyle Spencer says the second player is relief prospect Stephen Marek.
Laaaaaaaaame.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pmSickels rated Marek as the Angels 9th best prospect this year. He has a lot of Ks, but more walks than he should this year.
Looks pretty good, but not as much as I would have hoped.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pmDunno that I’m crazy about either’s ceiling.
We’ll flip it for Bay, though, right?
July 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pmHe’s under our control through 2011, Douglass. Kotchman’s solid. I’m a bit underwhelmed by the accompanying pitching prospect—wish we could’ve included Ohman and gotten Adenhart or Walden—but oh, well.
Now, let’s trade for Jason Bay and sign the Brewers’ aces this offseason.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pmAt least we didn’t get Chad Tracy, though.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pm“Kotchman, arguably the MVP on the team with the Majors’ best record”
Really??
July 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pmWhat’s so good about Kotchman? From a quick glance at his stats on Yahoo!, he doesn’t even look as good a hitter as Adam Laroche was before we traded him.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pmNow if we can go get Jason Bay from the Pirates, I may like our lineup a whole lot more.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pmI think it is a good deal. It was the best we were going to do. Stephen Marek looks like he might be a future clsoer. Kotchman is only going to get better
July 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pmWhat exactly was the point of making this trade now, instead of say near the deadline when somebody might have gotten desperate ?? This deal really wouldn’t have been on the table Thursday ?? Really ??
July 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pmNow, what can we get for Ohman?
July 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pmMaybe if you ignore pitching as, you know, important to baseball teams.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pmI’m glad we got Kotchman the more I think about it. Given the situation, we couldn’t have expected much more as far as 1b goes. I, like you, was a bit underwhelmed by the accompanying prospect, though, as I said, I don’t know anything about him.
Also, Ohman wasn’t in the trade, so we can expect more moves in the next couple days, I suppose.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pmOf course, we could have gotten Puljos and people would have pitched
July 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pmOf course, we could have gotten Puljos and people would have pitched
July 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pm*bitched
July 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pmI like the deal. We get a guy who can help us and play above league avg at 1B for a few years – at least, and a darn good pitching prospect and LAA gets a 2 month rental. Since Tex was the only player dealt, I think a few more deals (hopefully involoving an outfielder – please be Jason Bay) are on the way.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pmMy main concern with Kotchman is that his walks have dropped DRASTICALLY from last year. Also, corresponding with a substantial OBP drop.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:15 pmSmitty, your barber told me they were going to get more.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pmThe Braves will control Kotchman, who is a Wally Joyner type–though some of his peripherals are a bit down this year–for his age 26, 27, and 28 seasons. They added a young arm, too, who could work as either a nice reliever or backend starter. I was hopeful they could get three players, but this is much better than the Arizona package, and much better than draft picks (probably).
July 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pmBut for the welcome change – Kotchman DOES NOT strike out. He puts the ball in play.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pmWell said, Adam M. This is not a bad deal. A lot, from my perspective, will depend on how the rest of the team is (re)constructed for 2009 and beyond after this move.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:18 pmI think this is a “thumbs up” deal for Wren.
Any word on Angel fan response? I think this gives a good shot at the title.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pmI like Kotchman and Marek better than the 2 comp. picks we would have gotten had we held on to Teixeira
July 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pmFirst, I’m gobsmacked that the Angels actually made a move! They are usually paralyzed by their overinflated view of their own prospects and ride their value down to zero or near it (Mathis, Morales, McPherson, Wood on his way, Adenhart potentially).
Second, I read today in Olney’s blog (I think) what seemed to be a very reasonable rationale for the Angels not to be the best fit for Texeira. The Angels already have their division basically wrapped up, so Tex’s big 2nd half won’t mean jack to them. He’ll only have a very few meaningful postseason at-bats, so they basically traded Kotchman for a handful of at-bats! In those at-bats, it’s not even certain that Texeira is a better option than Kotchman at all, much less a much better option, with such a small sample and all.
Again, this surprises me. It’s okay, but I agree with most of the rest of you that I’m not excited by it. Still, Kotchman is better than the two draft picks–I’m not even counting the throw-in relief prospect who could just as well be nothing.
We could have done worse. I’ll be interested to see how Kotchman works out. If we figure out a way to get some power development (he’s only 25), we may have something. Then I can get excited.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pmAnyone know anything about Kotchman’s contract? I forget where I read it, but I think he is arbitration eligible, so while we do have him under contract for a while, I dont think he will be cheap at all.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pmI’m coming around guys. Like I said, disappointment was only my initial reaction…probably warped by the ridiculous rumors that had been out there. Kotchman + a power bat we sign for a corner outfield spot in the offseason = better than our lineup this year.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pmThe March to Permanent Mediocrity begins.
Sigh …
July 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pmAgree, Cary.
Solid deal, but somewhat underwhelming.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:24 pmMy thoughts exactly, Douglass. Or a trade for Bay and lots of money spent on pitching.
avery,
July 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pmHe’ll get arbitration raises, but he’ll never make more than $10 million in a season—unless he’s awesome, in which case that would be OK.
I agree with #s 112 and 113.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:28 pmYeah, whoopie, we traded a stud for a dude.
I just dont see this as helping the team, we got a no power 1B, and a maybe back end of the rotation pitcher.
It is probably a good deal, but i feel like we are now officially heading in the wrong direction as an organization, i hate being the seller, it is a bad sign.
Teams who sell, usually do so often for a reason.
We might flip Marek for Bay. I think we’re keeping Kotchman. I’m relatively pleased with the deal. Given that earlier today, Ken Rosenthal was talking about Tex and Ohman for Kotchman, Rivera and a prospect, I’m not too surprised by this. Take Ohman out and we don’t get Rivera and Marek is the prospect. From a Major League standpoint, we get what I felt we needed, which was a Major League-ready 1B. As far as the prospect goes, who really knows.
He’s not rated as highly as some, but I continue to believe that the ratings of prospects are, at best, a crap shoot and, at worst, complete bunk. Need I remind you that Bruce Chen, Andy Marte and Jeff Francoeur have all been the top prospect in our minor league system before? If he’s not a can’t-miss prospect (which he apparently isn’t), we’ll probably flip him eventually anyway. He, like most minor league players, is a pawn we can use to get stuff that we need down the road. That’s all that 95% of minor league players are, anyway. He’s a decent prospect, one of the top 10 in their system supposedly, so he’ll do, as far as I’m concerned.
Plus, now we can still get something for Ohman, and there’s a hell of a lot bigger market for him than there was for Tex, so we should be in a little bit better position for this one overall (although obviously he won’t fetch as much as Tex did), especially if we can pack him with Kotsay.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pmI sorta feel bad for Kotchman. He was going to the playoffs…
July 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pmWish Kotch had a higher OPB, but we needed a MLB starting 1B and we weren’t getting Jackson from Az. Hope the reliever can hack it (and soon).
Not knowing what else was genuinely available, I suppose I’m fine with it. Only fine, though.
Also, the Angels just became a scarier team.
I have Yanks-LAA tix Thursday night. Guess I’ll see what kind of damage Tex can do to The House That Ruth Built.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pmYou got to know when to hold ‘em. Know when to fold ‘em.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pmKnow when to walk away. Know when to leave your right fielder duct-taped to a tree.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:35 pmI think selling means they’re heading in the right direction. A team not heading in the right direction, the Astros, is a buyer.
Look at the other two teams that dumped ’studs’ earlier this season–the A’s and Indians, two of the best-run organizations in the league. Selling just means the Braves are trying to get as much for a guy who won’t be here next year as they can.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pmI kinda feel bad for Kotchman, too. His dad is a hitting instructor down in Clearwater, and I talk to him every now and again. He said that Kotchman liked LA, and they both thought the Angels would go to the World Series this year. Welcome to Atlanta, Casey!
July 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pmOldtimer, I think a team that never sells prolongs mediocrity and a team that always sells is a perpetual loser.
The Braves have a shot to leverage the second half of this year for success in the future. I genuinely hope it is not a regular occurrence.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pmYou’ve got to think the Angels wouldn’t have made this trade unless they thought they had a better than 50% chance of signing Tex to a long-term deal after the season, and I’m surprised Olney didn’t mention that.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pmGoals for the rest of the season:
(1) Get something for Ohman;
(2) Do not rush McCann; and
(3) Shut Jurrjens down soon.
I’m not at all optimistic about the third one. I hope our decision-makers surprise me.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pmYeah, it’s not really as simple as a “stud for a dude” trade. There were so many variables. We aren’t going to win this year, and I’d take Kotchman and Marek over two draft picks. Now I’d like to see a package built for ole Bay. Too bad they don’t want or need Ohman.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pmMost of the guys just leave him on the stump …
July 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pmJust checking in to say…
1) Like the deal. Kotchman is a good player and we need good players. Obviously the Braves did a good job of lowering expectation by floating Chad Tracy out there.
2) The earthquake this morning was a pretty good one. Enjoyed the ride.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pmB. Jones/Lillibridge/Marek/Rohrbough/Filler
for
Bay
Would that be enough? Would any of y’all be against it? (I know kc loves Rohrbough…)
July 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pmShoot, let’s make a trade for Jose Guillen. Apparently he’s unhappy in KC (who isn’t?), and wants to be traded. He’s signed through 2009 at least and he’s 32. He could probably be had for a decent return.
Bay in left, Anderson/Schafer/Blanco in center, and Guillen in right. I’ll take it.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:41 pmGlad you’re safe, Robert.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:42 pmWell, i disagree with Adam, but I just feel pessimistic about the organization right now.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:42 pmWe have a lack of talent in many areas at this time and I do not think we will fix them unless we spend some serious cash on FA’s, and there are not many good ones becoming available this off season.
Dude, check Guillen’s stats and his contract. Unless the Royals eat most of that salary and we don’t have to give up a single meaningful prospect, pass.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pm@125 I would give him about 160, maybe 170 innings, then call it a year. He’s never pitched more than 143 innings, which he’s basically done each of the past three seasons.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pm@125, Amen to that! Agreed.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:43 pmok deal to me under the circumstances–Kotchman isn’t great but he’s ok and the pitcher has a sweet K/IP rate
filling 1B with Kotchman for next few years lets the FO focus on the other main needs in OF and pitching; since Kotchman isn’t a power guy it’s clear that a power bat in the OF is a must
July 29th, 2008 at 5:44 pmG. Blanco lf
Y. Escobar ss
M. Kotsay cf
G. Norton 1b
O. Infante 3b
K. Johnson 2b
J. Francoeur rf
C. Miller c
J. Campillo p
July 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pmI’m pretty sure that we’re getting more of the Jeff Francoeur experience in right next year, at least to start the year. All we can do is get a very good left fielder and maybe upgrade center if Schaefer isn’t ready. I refuse to believe that the team will put up with Jeffy for another full year, though. They’ll give him a month or two for certain though, if for no other reason than that they still believe this year was a fluke for him.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pmI like Bay but I don’t see it happening, at least now. What’s the rush? Wren could always make a move this offseason, if that’s what he decides to do.
Anyway, I like the idea of giving Brandon Jones plenty of at bats next season. In fact, I like the idea of giving him at bats this season.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pmI’m a little wary of the FA pitching. The guys either seem like bad fits (injury prone and we don’t have a whole lot of margin for error) or guys that would probably go to teams that are more likely to compete and will probably be willing to offer higher dollar, longer contracts.
Trades would be more ideal, but they tend to burn through cheap future contributors, which we need. With the sheer number of holes we’re likely to have (depending on Hudson), we’d wipe out the farm system trying to patch things up through only that route.
I forget who is available hitter-wise, but it seems like the consensus is that it’s underwhelming. I could see an offseason where we see other teams make reaches at mediocre guys and do little else but sit around patting ourselves on the back for at least not doing that. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow, or in lieu of that, perhaps there are no good answers in a inflated FA market, and maybe abstaining and suffering is the better choice.
But I guess it’s unfair to pin that mindset on Wren yet.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pmSeriously, how in the world has it come to this? Look at that “lineup”!
July 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pm@130 – Blanco would NOT be here if we were to get Bay. Almost guaranteed. And I was for getting Guillen at the start of the season, but he has had a really bad year so far and is expensive.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pmJason Bay now please.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pmStu,
Goal #4 – Secure a protected first round pick.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:47 pmGlad you’re safe, Robert.
Thanks. My schedule is crazy right now so I was actually sleeping (at 11:30 AM local on a weekday, it’s true!) and it woke me up, which is not easy to do.
House didn’t collapse or anything so I went back to sleep.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pmNow that we have the ball rolling, I say let’s trade away! Burn baby burn!
Chopping block-everyone not named Larry, Brian, or Jair…
July 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pmParish,
See 137. That seems like a lock at this point.
*vomits*
July 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pmThat’s wretched. Wow.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pmWow, Mr. Guillen hates the free pass. He’s got good power, but man his plate discipline is atrocious. He’s got a 100 OPS+ this year, which is a step in the right direction over our current RF. But you’re right; his contract sucks and you don’t pay that much for mediocrity. If they ate his contract and we didn’t give up anything I’d take it. I agree. Pass.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:50 pmThat’s got to be the worst lineup since 1989….
July 29th, 2008 at 5:51 pmHow can Francoeur seriously entertain thoughts that he’s anything but horrible when he’s batting 7th in THAT lineup?
July 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pmWow, that’s one hell of a lineup. That could literally be Richmond’s lineup without much of a stretch. That’s pretty ridiculous.
I see where all you people who are in favor of wrapping Jurrjens in bubble wrap and rolling him into a cryogenic tube for the rest of the year are coming from, but just to play devil’s advocate for a minute, how is he ever gonna get his strength built up so that he can go 200 innings sometime in the near future if we shut him down at the point where he would’ve shut it down in the minors? I’m not saying we need to ride him, but sitting him the entire month of September isn’t the correct solution, either. Watch his innings closely, but he does need to build full-season endurance at some point.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pmFAs-
Burrell?
Dunn?
July 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm@144, ha!
Yeah, Kotchman can take the slow train to Atlanta. See the country roll by.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:53 pm@151
At least he can thank his lucky stars that Sammons isn’t playing. He could’ve been batting eighth in that lineup.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:56 pmLike Adam says @134, taking Jurrjens to about 170 innings this year would be an increase of 30 innings. Then he can get to around 200 IP next year, gawd willin’.
Walking guys up about 30 innings pitched per year (up to 200 IP) is the mark I’ve always heard is ideal.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:57 pmI wonder what id Kotchman’s opinion on this trade. He just got shipped off to this trainwreck.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pmAlso, I have tickets to the game tomorrow night (No, I’m not a masochist…this was planned at least a month ago), so I’m hoping that Kotchman will be here by then. That would at least make the game semi-interesting.
July 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pmWhat’s sad is there’s no calvary on the other side of the hill. Kotchman and Chipper, yeah, but, man, that is one BAD lineup.
I like this one:
CF Blanco
July 29th, 2008 at 6:02 pmSS Escobar
3B Chipper
LF Bay
C McCann
1B Kotchman
2B Johnson
RF Frenchy
@153
Not enamored with the idea of either (mostly for bad defense), but I hope we can get one if we don’t get Bay.
Dunn is a great offensive player, but I just have this feeling when it goes, it’ll be gone for him. And it will probably go in the early middle of his next contract. Just a feeling, though.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:05 pmSimpson saying there are rumors that Kotsay, Kelly Johnson and Francoeur are in trade talks.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:07 pmI think if they get Bay, next year’s lineup would look more like:
SS Escobar
2B Kelly
3B Chipper
C McCann
LF Bay
1B Kotchman
CF ??
RF ??
Anyway, it’s not a bad 1-6
July 29th, 2008 at 6:07 pmSounds like I’m in the minority, but I like the trade. Kotchman fills what was going to be a big hole, and he does it cheaply (and for 3 years). That leaves more money to bring in a RH LF and a starter or two this offseason. And he’s not a bad hitter. He’s developing power (while he’ll never be a 30 HR guy, 20 HR and 35 2B seem like realistic numbers), and he hardly ever strikes out. If he could get his walk rate back to where it was in the minors (career MiL .325/.401/.493), he’d be well above average. Oh, and he hits LH really well, which we sorely needed.
And Marek sounds like he could be useful. 57 Ks and only 2 HR allowed in 47 IP since being converted into a reliever this year. His walk rate is a bit high (21 in 47 IP), but you can live with that as long as you’re striking people out and limiting HR. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him contribute to the bullpen next year.
Sure it’s not CoJack + Scherzer, but as far as realistic trades go, it’s a pretty good deal. A solid ML first baseman and near ML-ready reliever seem a lot better than 2 draft picks. Just my .02.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:08 pm159–looks good except for the 8 hole
Blanco has a nice obp but I hope (though not too strongly) that he’s the 4th OF rather than the CF starter. It’d give a stronger lineup and a good obp guy off the bench for ph.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:10 pmHard to believe that we would probably still have an above average lineup if we add a good LF next year, looking at what we’re trotting out now. Guess it depends some on Francoeur, who should still somehow be able to split the difference (or be demoted/benched/traded). It isn’t like he was any better or had a different approach when he put up acceptable numbers.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:10 pmAt least we still have Campillo!
1-2-3 Playoffs here we come!
Oh, and for those of you projecting Blanco in CF, he just doesn’t have the arm to do it… unfortunately.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:14 pmDan 161- Two thirds of that is fine by me. Try to get a lottery arm for Kotsay and plane fare out for Frenchy. I’d like to hang on to Kelly, though. He’s still got a chance ot be a star 2b in a league where they’re few and far between.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:17 pmI like mhr’s analysis. I was unimpressed earlier, but the more I process it, I think it’s a good trade. I guess I had the unrealistic mindset that we could get a Jackson/Scherzer package, but Kotchman is a good player, will be cheap, and Marek can be an asset as well.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:17 pmOK, I’m on vacation in upstate NY (wife’s family), so I not only haven’t gotten to SEE the Braves lose three in a row in ugly fashion, I’ve had to watch Mets or Yankees games if I want to watch baseball. I was actually HAPPY when I checked e-mail on my blackberry (thank you day job), and saw we got Kotchman. It was about as good as we were going to get out of it, and will give us a good bit of salary flexibility next year to fill in the gaps.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:17 pmWhy do the Braves hate Kelly Johnson? Not just batting 6th behind Norton and Infante, but now the trade talks?
I probably would have done this lineup:
LF Blanco
CF Kotsay
SS Escobar
3B Infante
2B Johnson (slump)
1B Norton
RF Francoeur
catcher
pitcher
I’m relatively satisified with the trade. Kotchman will fill the 1b hole for the next couple of years. Hopefully the live arm will develop into something.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:20 pmIn his 157 games in Atlanta, Teixeira hit 37 home runs and drove in more runs (134) than any player in the major leagues except Ryan Howard. — from Jayson Stark on ESPN.com
Not a bad season at all for Teixeira, even if it was split over two seasons.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:20 pmJudging from Wren’s comments, I think he and the front office like Kelly Johnson and know how good he is.
I think it’s Bobby Cox. I think Bobby would probably rather be starting Prado, but doesn’t because of the front office.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:24 pmLet’s go after Vlad this offseason to replace Frenchy – he’s a free agent.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:24 pm#162 – screw defense and get Dunn in RF
Guillen, no thanks, maybe he’ll spike Chipper again
July 29th, 2008 at 6:25 pmOh, this is classic. I just read this quote from Tex in ESPN’s article relating to the trade. On whether he would have bypassed free agency and signed long-term with the Braves this season:
I was always open for it. This whole year I was open for it. But that’s business. It just didn’t work out,” he said. “I loved it here. I really did. I wanted to stay here for the rest of my career. But business is business. Sometimes you have to move on and I’m looking forward to moving on to LA.
I don’t believe a single word of that statement.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:30 pmJust chiming in to say that I, too, like the trade; three years of (somewhat) cost-controlled, above-average play at first base and a prospect who may be able to slot into the back of our rotation in a couple years (if he’s not included in a package for an outfielder) for a player we had virtually no chance of keeping? I’ll take that.
Given that Tex is represented by Boras and as such wouldn’t even discuss a contract until after the season, we had no leverage whatsoever. This was the best offer I heard reported (Conor Jackson + Scherzer notwithstanding — and that was a pipe dream) and I have no qualms about it — though personally, I would have included Ohman for the chance to get Adenhart.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:31 pmWren’s interview is interesting. He thinks Francoeur will bounce back next season and the Braves made an “aggressive” offer to Teixeira in early spring training that would have made him one of the highest paid players in baseball and his agent turned it down.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:34 pmI believe he’s looking forward to moving on to the deep pockets in L.A.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:36 pmHopefully we can get some outfield prospects before August 1.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:36 pmJorge Campillo just struck Troy Glaus out on a 73-mph changeup after a 71-mph curve.
Man, it must be annoying to face him.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:37 pmi too have warmed up to the trade a bit. I just hate the fact the best player in the trade left the team.
Now, if we can get three OF we are onto something.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:37 pmYeah, I’m not buying Tex’s comments. Wren just said that they talked to him about it in Spring Training.
Of course, he also said that the team has a good nucleus to build around,i.e. McCann,Jeffy,& Blanco. That’s like saying, “look at my Hayabusa,tricycle, & big wheel”.
Who knows what to believe.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pmGo Kelly!!!
July 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pmOkay, what just happened there? Gameday says Brendan Ryan doubled on a pop up to Frenchy, deflected by Kelly. What does that even mean?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:40 pmWe need three OF and 2 SP. Someone devise a way to get that and I’ll hire you…
July 29th, 2008 at 6:40 pmRe Jose Guillen–not just no but H— NO. Bad player, bad attitude, and bad contract.
BTW, terrible call at the plate. Three blind mice, three blind mice, …
Suprised Cox didn’t at least give a token argument.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:40 pmAnyone else check out Kotchman’s splits? He is a lefty, but his OPS this year is about .250 higher against Lefty’s than against Righty’s. This could be a big test for Bobby Cox’s rigidity on letting lefty’s hit lefty’s.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:41 pmBad play, KJ.
Good plays, Frenchy & Corky
Bad call, Mr. Ump
July 29th, 2008 at 6:41 pmKelly dropped another pop fly running towards right field.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:41 pmAt least he dropped that double right up against the wall (according to Gameday). Now, can Mr. February deliver?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:43 pma run produced!
July 29th, 2008 at 6:43 pmYes! Oink, flap, oink, flap.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:44 pmIn fact, that call at the plate was patently awful.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:44 pmWhat if Tex was holding Jeffy back this whole time? Tex leaves & Jeffy drives in a run….I’m just saying……the turnaround has begun.
Jeff Francoeur-2009 NL MVP & 2009 WS MVP
Was Simpson just talking about Jeffy there, with the entitlement speech.?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pmBlanco is doing his damnedest to carve out a spot on the future Braves. He’s a fine hitter except for the total lack of power, and if Kotsay leaves, I think he’d be a fine CF.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:51 pmHitting with runners in scoring position?
Ububba, which call at the plate was awful?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:52 pmBlanco should teach everyone on the team how to bunt.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:52 pmGregor Blanco’s earned a spot on the team for next year IMO, whether it be as the CF or 4th OF. He has a .362 OBP coming into tonight.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:53 pmJeffy’s career ops : .757
July 29th, 2008 at 6:53 pmJeffy’s season ops : .657
Jeffy’s july ops : .557
I don’t know what that is supposed to mean, but it is scary.
If man is 5….
Then the devil is 6…
And if the devil is 6, then God is 7…
Is Jeffy a Monkey Gone to Heaven?
July 29th, 2008 at 6:56 pmJust looked at Kotchman’s baseballreference.com page. Wish I hadn’t. He’s really not as good as I thought and really all he is is a bunch of walks and middling power. If Marek is not a true prospect, I think we could have done better.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:00 pmAAR,
The play where KJ dropped the pop up & Frenchy threw the guy out at the plate.
Miller clearly tagged the runner’s leg before he touched the plate. I have no idea how Tschida blew that call. Miller’s glove even bounced off the runner’s leg.
A MLB ump shouldn’t miss a call like that.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:02 pmchief,
July 29th, 2008 at 7:04 pmKotch doesn’t really walk that much, not this year.
Excellent Pixies reference.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:05 pm… really all he is is a bunch of walks and middling power
Isn’t a bunch of walks and middling power (I’d say occasional pop, but I’m an optimist) a lot better than 57 games of Greg Norton, full-time first baseman? When you factor in his defense (outstanding, by all accounts), he can more than handle playing first for us for three years — which will allow us to focus resources on an outfield bat or two.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:07 pmNorton, 1st base hitting machine!
July 29th, 2008 at 7:08 pmIn Chief’s defense, he also thinks that “2b and ss these days hit 40 hr a year.”
(Chief, still waiting for your answer to #64.)
July 29th, 2008 at 7:10 pmI’m pretty happy about the trade. I think Kotchman is a decent first baseman offensively, and a very good fielder. I really didn’t expect Wren to be able to turn 2 months of Tex into very much, especially with Boras sitting on Tex’ shoulder whispering in his ear.
Also, if Freeman progresses like many of us dreams he will, Kotchman’s contract is pretty much the perfect length.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:12 pmTo Chief, “good player” and “All Star Player” seem to mean the same thing. Anything below that is a waste of a uniform. It’s pretty silly.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:14 pmRe: Kotch –
I know Pecota hates his slg pct, and he put up good numbers in hitters parks in the minors, but a – if the two draft picks we would have gotten turned out to be these two guys, you’d be more than happy, b – this was by far the best deal on the table for an immediate mlb 1B replacement, and c- there is a non trivial chance that as he approaches his peak years he will be an above average offensive 1B with very good defense, allowing the club to address it’s more glaring short term issues in the OF with the money coming off the books. Could the team have done better? Maybe, but I think this is a solid, if not life altering deal. That just wasn’t going to happen in any event.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:17 pmOh, and if anybody wants to run with the whole “Kotch’s most similar players through Age 24 are David Ortiz, Nick Johnson, and Conor Jackson” thing, please go right ahead.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:17 pmI’ll say it right now: Casey Kotchman will be the next David Ortiz.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:19 pmTomas,
I can name A-Rod, Hanley Ramirez and Uggla are going to challenge 40 HR or at least 30+. It’s just really simple. KJ is NEVER going to ever ever ever approach numbers anywhere remotely like that. He’s just OK and not a player to build around. He looks better because the rest of our players are craptastic.
We don’t have very many championship level players. In fact since Chipper’s bones have turned to fiberglass, I’m not sure we have but one, McCann. We don’t have 1 pitcher at that level. Maybe Jurrjens down the road.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:19 pmCampillo’s pitching well. All those who thought that Jorge Campillo would be the best pitcher on the Braves’ roster at the end of July raise your hand.
I don’t think even his mother has her hand raised.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:20 pmHey Robert,
Newsflash. Go to the All-Star rosters and see which teams have the most. Then cross reference by the standings and let me know the correlation that you find.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:21 pmChief, my goodness. Alex Rodriguez hasn’t been a shortstop in 5 years, and Hanley Ramirez won’t be one for much longer. And there’s almost no chance Hanley ever hits 40 anyway, which was the bizarre criterion you offered. The only player at either position with much of a chance of 40 is Chase Utley, and he’s one of the 5 best players in baseball. Are you actually annoyed that Kelly isn’t as good as Utley?
July 29th, 2008 at 7:21 pmre: 212
If you were trying to prove Robert’s #208 post correct, you did an exceptional job, my friend.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pmI’ll say it right now: Casey Kotchman will be the next David Ortiz.
Awesome Alex, just what I was looking for.
Just curious Chief, before this deal how many ‘championship level players’ did the Angels (the best team in baseball) have by your definition?
July 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pmWow, look at all the pigs flying by!
July 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pmOkay, Francoeur just walked on 4 straight. I’m going to prepare my apartment for the alien invasion.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:22 pmCorky falls below .100
less than waist high to Mendoza
July 29th, 2008 at 7:25 pmDoes Kotchman have a nickname?
I’m thinking “Kotch Rocket”
or
“Myself, I’m a Kotch Man personally”
July 29th, 2008 at 7:25 pmThe Mendoza line is a .200 batting average. The new terminology should be the Corky line – a .100 BA. I wonder if Hamster will finish above or below the line.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:25 pmWell since we don’t have but 1 who is concussed at the moment, I’ll say more than us.
I’ll take, K-Rod, Guerrero(although I think he’s in decline), Weaver, Lackey, Shields, Arredondo, and Chone Figgins normal year is championship level.
Don’t go there with the Angels comparisons, they are light years ahead of us and have an ownership group that are more interested in winning baseball games than figuring how to get another lonely guy in a Motel 6 to rent a PPV.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:27 pmBut can he stay above the Leiter line — .085?
July 29th, 2008 at 7:27 pmDoes Mo’ 6 have PPV?
July 29th, 2008 at 7:29 pmI think Blanco is the best 4th outfielder we’ve had in a while. I don’t think he’s good enough to play everyday, but he can be pretty valuable. If we had a real outfield, he would be a perfect backup.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:30 pm224–all Corky needs is 0 for his next 8–well within his “abilities”
July 29th, 2008 at 7:31 pm#223 – That was funny thanks. Jurrjens isn’t but Arredondo is. I think I see how this goes.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:33 pmNo offense but the fact that we’re finding a little positive in an OF hitting in the .260s with Little League power is telling.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:34 pm@223 – You just named almost all pitchers. Try naming some position players will you – that seems to be your argument. But if you want to go there, we have Hudson, Gonzalez, Soriano, Chipper, McCann, and I might throw in Escobar in that mix.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:35 pmRobert I said McCann and Jurrjens in the earlier post of championship level players. Don’t even think of including Smoltz, Hudson or Chipper.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:35 pmWow, A-Rod’s a middle infielder again. I’ll have to keep a better eye on those New York tabloids. Hanley Ramirez, as was mentioned, a pretty awful defensive shortstop and will most likely be in CF before it’s all said and done with. He’ll follow the Alfonso Soriano/B.J. Upton route of taking a long walk out to the outfield. Dan Uggla is a baller, so nothing there. Of course, you could also say Jimmy Rollins based on last year, but he only hit 30 and this year Mr. Rollins’ SLG has taken an 100 point plunge, is hitting all of .270, and has an eye-popping 7 home runs. Jeff Kent had some legitimate pop at one point, but as Keith Law so eloquently put, his defensive prowess has him dubbed “a pillar of salt.”
Second basemen with pop simply aren’t that popular. And most middle infielders who had pop end up moving to less premium defensive positions because they don’t have the defense to stay there. I guess it’s one or the other when it comes to middle infielders: defense or pop. I think A-Rod and Cal Ripken are the only two modern day examples, though even Ripken ended up at 3B, though A-Rod is there only because some people are foolish.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:36 pm@229 – you’ve got to be kidding – are you really bringing BA into play before OBP??? For someone who should be a leadoff hitter? His OBP is more than adequate, and here’s the cool part (it’s his first year in the majors man). Your bar is set entirely too high buddy.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:38 pmRe: 229
No it’s not. In filling in for the injured Kotsay and Diaz, Blanco has provided us with a speedy leadoff hitter with a near .370 onbase.
The fact that you don’t see the value in that is more telling.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:38 pmtd very specifically said *4th* outfielder. Are you expecting .290, 30 homers and an all-star appearance from the 4th outfielder too?
July 29th, 2008 at 7:38 pmHudson, Soriano and Chipper. Hey man, you actually have to play to contribute to a championship and typically more than half a season.
I know Huddy’s been a workhorse, we’re both AU grads and he once hit me in the back in all stars back in the day, but he’s now at a huge crossroads.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:38 pmwe’re both AU grads
Aaaaand, I think we’ve discovered our problem.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:40 pmHudson and Chipper definitely count, bud. You take Chipper’s 120-130 games and a capable back-up’s 30-40 games, and you’ve got yourself still an insane player. And if Hudson’s current 3.17 ERA isn’t good enough, what is?
But if we’re including Chone Figgins while shoving KJ to the side, then I think insanity is dominating this conversation. And K-Rod and not Gonzalez? Bro, you must really over-value save opportunities.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:41 pm@236 – you just negated your own argument from 223 when you put Vlad on your list for the Angels. He hasn’t been healthy much for the past 3 years. At least keep your argument consistent.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:41 pmOn Chief’s team, if the towel boy hasn’t won a couple Silver Sluggers, that kid can go screw himself.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:42 pmMoooooo
July 29th, 2008 at 7:43 pmWhen they hit like that, I can guarantee you that by whatever statistical means you want to dredge up that they knock in a whole hell of a lot more than they let in.
I don’t know why I even bother with such ridiculous homerism with this board where every Brave is an above average player. I don’t think they’re all dogmeat, but most of them just aren’t major leaguers. The fact that Kotsay gets play on this board is comical and by the way I don’t care if his OPS+ was 95 or 105. He’s old, injury prone, has no power and has the range of my great aunt.
If they’re all above average then why the hell do they play so badly.
And Blanco’s OBP has really helped in the standings and has contributed greatly to winning ball.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:43 pmre: 242
I have no idea what’s goin on.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:47 pmBlanco is a good 4th outfielder – not much more. Kotsay is better than AJ was last year, but when you consider him, Franceour and Blanco together, it is one of the worst OF’s in baseball. I don’t think that is being a homer.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:48 pmI have not problem stating our inadequacies:
Frenchy Sucks, No right-fielder with power (Blanco is a center-fielder), KJ has been average this year, Tex was average for most of the year.
But our biggest problem by far – injuries.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:48 pmAnd I’ll hear nothing from Bama fans considering 7 is coming and so is 8, 9…
Have fun this year with no DL and LBs that run in the 4.8 range.
CJ Spiller and Davis may run for 350 yds combined against that ‘defense’.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:48 pmseriously……..??????a hit a run with runners at the corner and 1 out??? WTF, a fly ball scores a run
July 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pmDon’t know if you guys saw this quote from Kotchman:
“I’m just excited to go to Atlanta and play for (manager) Bobby Cox,” Kotchman said before leaving Fenway Park for the airport. “At the same time, my teammates here, to leave them, I’ll be pulling for them. Other than that, there’s really not a whole lot I can say.”
July 29th, 2008 at 7:52 pmWait, now Chief wants to talk football?
Dude is blowing my mind tonight.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm247–just setting up the powerhouse trio of Francoeur, Miller, and Campillo to bat in the 6th
July 29th, 2008 at 7:55 pmI bet Kotch has dropped more F Bombs in the last two hours than he has in his whole life
July 29th, 2008 at 7:56 pmCampillo is BY FAR the best hitter of that bunch. Sad.
July 29th, 2008 at 7:56 pmI just got up and saw the trade: its really disappointing….the Braves already have lots of pitchers as good as Marek…given all the teams that were apparently intrested in Tex, makes me wonder if Wren would have done better to wait a day and ask for more…..it looks to me like he lost his nerve….
July 29th, 2008 at 8:00 pmsaw this on the MLb chat..(and no Kelly didnt ask this)
[Comment From Kelly Johnson]
7:48 Any news on the chances I’ll be shipped out of Atlanta?
7:48 There are actually no rumors here. But if Wren was talking about 6 different Braves he could certainly be among them.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:00 pmI still think the trade is a solid one. They are better than two picks
July 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pmI tackled CJ Spiller in high school. For a loss. Just saying…
I don’t think anyone here thinks everyone is above average. As was said, we have a terrible right fielder, our left fielder has no power, and our center fielder has range issues. Other than that, our third baseman, when healthy is MVP-caliber. Our SS and 2B are above average, and our first baseman was a great player. Of course, McCann is a baller. Our pitching has been decent too.
What’s killed us is injuries. You don’t lose John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton, Peter Moylan, Rafael Soriano, Mike Gonzalez, Chipper, and Matt Diaz for extended periods and still say competitive. You can argue that the administration crapped the bed in relying on so many fragile players, but you can still make the case that we’re unlucky and our team has a lot of good players on it.
I’m listening to Skip on XM tonight, and it has been a treat, I must say.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pm@251 – Could you blame him? I think he handled it well though (judging by the quote). Don’t forget most all hist counting stats are on pace for career highs – he’s getting better. His rate stats have suffered a bit – mostly b/c walks are down. But as I stated earlier, the guy just doesn’t strike out – a welcome change for the Braves offense.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:01 pmWell, Kotchman is from St. Pete, so he is a lot closer to home. That has to say something.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:02 pmAny word on when Glavine is supposed to start rehabbing?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pmGuuut swing, Corky *chuckle*
July 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pmI think Kotchman will be solid. Not a heist for Wren, but not a bust, either. It helps that he has a good defensive reputation and that he’s approaching his peak years while under team control. I don’t think it’s out of the question to expect his power to develop.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:03 pmWe will have Kotchman for his prime years, at least.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:04 pmI think Kotchman will have a positive VORP for the forseeable future /SABR/.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pmnews from the farm–starting catcher from Rome left on a stretcher after a collision at the plate–his replacement later left after a foul tip–now catching is the SS
July 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pmI think the Kotchman part of the trade is fine–but Marek?…we should have been able to do better (even if we had to throw in a player or propsect) than Marek….then again he did’t cost as much as Ridgeway….
July 29th, 2008 at 8:07 pm264 — that sucks. hope they’re ok. we could probably get corky there in a couple of hours if they can stall.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:09 pmWell, Billy Beane said power can be acquired. I wonder if he’s still right..
July 29th, 2008 at 8:09 pm266–they’d prefer to stick with the SS rather than holding out for the demi-Mendoza
July 29th, 2008 at 8:12 pmBesides McCann, we don’t have one player that has league average power at his position. Even Chipper is in the modern era not a true big bopper. That’s why we’re losing.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:12 pmAnyone see that Lackey has a no-hitter into the 8th against the Bo-Sox???
July 29th, 2008 at 8:12 pm@269 – Where do you get your stats from, man. Chipper is well above league average for power at his position.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:14 pmthey’re replaying the hr derby and hamilton’s up on espn2. just a heads up in case you missed it.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:14 pm269 — frank, couldn’t you just see corky showing up and the clubhouse door is locked with a note on it for him. heh heh.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:15 pmre: 271
Chief has already said in this thread he doesn’t believe in stats. Despite the fact that he continues to post made up ones.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:17 pmHe’s basically a 30 HR guy, maybe 32. OK so he’s probably above league average, but not elite power. You’re right.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:17 pmSo 30hr a year is “probably” above league average by your estimation?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:21 pmFun with facts:
2008, MLB 2B: .275/.337/.410
2008, MLB SS: .267/.321/.384
2008, Kelly Johnson: .264/.339/.423
2008, Yunel Escobar: .284/.357/.382
Kelly has had slightly above average power and an above-average OPS. Yunel has had almost exactly average power and, thanks to an elevated BA and OBP, a well above-average OPS.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:23 pmHave you seen: Braves Lineup
ESPN’s stat page random link generator is rubbing it in.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:25 pmI really wish Yunel hadn’t bunted there.
By the way, I just noticed Gregor Blanco is 4-4. Wow.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:26 pmwell, lackey made it 8 and a third before pedroia got a single.
still a pretty good day to be an angels fan, i’d say.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:27 pmbut, hey, Corky’s a good catch and throw guy!
July 29th, 2008 at 8:30 pmHow many teams have this many players who don’t do anything right?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:31 pmThe 1899 Cleveland Spiders?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pmit really does take a huge colllective effort on everyone’s part to be this bad
July 29th, 2008 at 8:33 pmI consider 30 HR a minimum for a corner infielder so that would be meeting a minimum of expectations.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
July 29th, 2008 at 8:35 pmthat has to be an unearned run, right?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:36 pmEven Chipper is in the modern era not a true big bopper
Wow. I’m not even going to bother.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:37 pmI think we should trade Corky Miller to hell.
Chief, do you have a reason for thinking that? This isn’t the steroid era, you know. Last year, first basemen in the major leagues hit 736 HR in 20992 PA in 4862 games; third basemen hit 625 HR in 20785 PA in 4862 games.
This means that major league first basemen hit 22.7 homers per 150 games, and 21 homers per 600 plate appearances; third basemen hit 19.3 homers per 150 games and 18 homers per 600 plate appearances.
What do the words “average” and “minimum” even mean to you?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:40 pmspike,
how many times has Chipper hit 50 HRs? or 45+? A 2B will hit nearly as many this season as he’s hit for a career high.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:41 pmThat 2B you speak of also plays in a Little League ballpark.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:42 pmBy Chief’s definition, only A-Rod, M. Cabrera, R. Braun, & D. Wright met the “minumum of expectations” for a 3b last year.
M. Cabrera has been moved to 1b/dh. Braun to the outfield.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:43 pmD. Wright is widely regarded as one of the best young players in baseball.
And A-Rod is inarguably one of the greatest player of all time.
The Braves have two paths in front of them, as I see it- hang on to the remaining established players or completely blow up the team.
To quote Woody Allen, “One path leads to despair and hopelessness. The other, to total destruction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.”
July 29th, 2008 at 8:43 pmThat 2B is also going to hit more HRs than Pujols this year. Does that mean Pujols isn’t a “big bopper”? You should really think this through.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:44 pmA 2B will hit nearly as many this season as he’s hit for a career high.
Right, an MVP candidate and one of the greatest offensive 2b of all time.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:44 pmChief, THIS ISN’T THE STEROID ERA. Very few people hit 50 homers these days. It has only happened 5 times since 2005.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:45 pmForget it. I can’t consider a player elite that plays 120 games per year. Sorry. Oh he’s also 35 years old.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:46 pmYou’re changing your argument every single time!
Chipper Jones is leading the major leagues in batting. How is that not elite?
July 29th, 2008 at 8:47 pmGotta love a character that can’t admit when he’s wrong.
Dig up stupid!
July 29th, 2008 at 8:47 pmhey we got Blanco, Esco, Chip, Tex, and BMac coming up in the 9th. lets get something going
July 29th, 2008 at 8:48 pm(sorry for the obscure Simpsons reference, I can’t resist when the opportunity presents itself.)
July 29th, 2008 at 8:48 pmYeah I was wrong months ago when I said this team was terrible and not just injured. Meanwhile we had people devising ways to get into the World Series. Perspective and stuff.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:49 pmAs I was saying, you gotta love a character who can’t admit when he’s wrong.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:51 pmThis team is AWESOME
July 29th, 2008 at 8:52 pmJeez….Kotchman went from the best team in baseball to the Keystone cops comedy review. Great day for him.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:53 pmDouglass, agreed.
Also, I strongly dislike the way this team can get 9 hits, draw three walks, and score only 2 runs.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:54 pmWaived by Seattle because he didn’t cut the mustard as a utility infielder. So of course he’s now our starting 1b.
New nickname: Greg “Emperor” Norton.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:55 pmOk, nicknames for Kotchman: “Crotch-Man”….or, along those same lines, “Merkin”.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:58 pmThe quest for a top 5 draft pick is alive and running. What might be an ELITE player someday.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:58 pmSo, corner infielders have to hit 30 HRs apiece, middle infielders have to hit like said corner infielders, Gregor Blanco is not even a good backup outfielder, and Jair Jurrjens is not a championship level player, whatever the heck that means. I think I found the two teams that he may consider pretty good, but they only play one game, it’s against each other, and it’s in the middle of July.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:59 pmWhat happened to Corky? He’s been pulled….maybe he was traded…
July 29th, 2008 at 8:59 pmKJ comes up small again with a RISP. The next inning, a Pujols dinger. Most of you guys praise him, but he isn’t clutch and his defensive lapses come at the most inconvenient times! I’ve had my fill of him.
Norton and Miller have no business playing.
Frenchy keeps stinking things up and reaches to make a lot of outs.
This team is looking more and more like the vintage late-80’s Braves. At least we had the ‘young guns’ to root for then.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:02 pmMy brain is now leaking out of my ear onto my desk after reading all these Nocahoma posts.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:02 pmCorky was pinch-hit for by Ruben Gotay in the 8th. It worked out really well.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:02 pmPhillip, Corky was pulled for a pinch-hitter, in a futile attempt to score an 8th inning run.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:02 pmOh, I was thinking maybe Jason Bay was on his way to the ATL.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:04 pmIs Corky the worst player in MLB? I mean overall?
July 29th, 2008 at 9:06 pmOh, thank God! It’s Boyer!
And I think there’s a very good chance, Phillip. I defy anybody to come up with somebody they think is worse.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:06 pmSurely there’s some crappy reliever on the Royals, or some no-name bench player on the Mariners, that is worse……maybe?….no?
July 29th, 2008 at 9:09 pmEquivalent Average -.049 before tonight’s 0-3. Only Brandon Wood (Angels 3b) has a negative EqA in more plate appearances. On the other hand, he has thrown out 5 of 10 base stealers, so I guess there’s a tiny part of his game where he doesn’t suck. Still, Phillip, I’m inclined to say yes.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:10 pmOne mighty fine night at the plate for Blanco.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:14 pmThat would have been a useful run before this inning.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:18 pmAnd that’s it. Another Little League effort by the team, and Kotchner is calling his agent looking to insert a retroactive no-trade clause into his contract. Sorry, buddy, but at least you’ll be getting paid to watch this.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:19 pmOh he’s also 35 years old.
So? Old is not synonymous with bad. Plenty of 30+ year old players will out-perform players 25 years old and younger.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:19 pmBarry Bonds was 42 last year. Yeah, he really sucked. In fact, he’s pretty much sucked ever since he turned 35, for that matter. Plus, he only hit like 40 homers last year, so he wasn’t elite.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:24 pmTo save Mac the misery, here’s today’s recap:
Same shit, different day.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:26 pmIn fact, he’s pretty much sucked ever since he turned 35, for that matter.
Yes, and we know exactly why he hasn’t sucked, don’t we?
July 29th, 2008 at 9:42 pmBecause he had amazing mental and physical talent that was supplemented by some uhh… supplements.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:47 pmI’m sorry, but I may be one of the few people that would vote Barry Bonds into the Hall of Fame, perjury and all. The guy was simply, even if you took away the steroids, a fantastic, one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time kinda player. He did everything well.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:49 pmI don’t really have a big problem with the trade, just the timing. What the harm of holding on to Tex until Thursday and see if somebody gets desperate. Maybe the Red Sox move Manny and need to trade for Tex to replace him, maybe the Dodgers cave into the pressure and give up Loney and somebody else, maybe the DBacks feel the pressure and part with Scherzer or Parker and somebody else along with Tracy ??
I would find it hard to believe that this offer was a take it or leave it offer from the Angels. That’s my only problem with the trade.
Kotchman should serve as at least near league average for a couple of years, which is more than I can say for anybody that the Braves have until the minors, and free up some money to spend elsewhere. I’m not getting my hopes up that it’s going to get spent, but that’s just me. Hopefully Freeman continues to progress and can take over when Kotchman becomes too expensive.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:50 pmhere’s a thought
Ohman/Lilli for Ethier
he seems to be getting the shaft
July 29th, 2008 at 9:54 pmBoston doesn’t have a need for Teixeira. They have Ortiz at DH and Youkilus at 1B, both of which, for good reason, aren’t going anywhere. I guess you could have moved Youkilus back to third and dealt Lowell, but why? Good teams don’t make short-sighted decisions like that.
Loney’s not much better than Kotchman, if at all. Chad Tracy is not the person we were looking for, and we would just be looking to replace him in a year. Conor Jackson’s the only guy I would like other than Kotchman, and that wasn’t happening.
I agree that perhaps there could have been a better deal closer to the deadline, but we don’t know who’s been saying what on the other end of Wren’s BlackBerry. Who knows, maybe the Angels were hesitant to even do that deal, and Wren gave them a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:55 pmI do want to give a tip of the cap to the Angels for going for it, I’d much rather see them represent the AL than the Yankees or Red Sox, that’s for sure.
Also, please trade Kotsay for whatever and let Brandon Jones play to see if maybe he can be the answer next year.
The only thing I’m really interested in the rest of the year is to see who can play outfield from within. Jayson Bay or somebody of that ilk would be nice, but I’m not getting my hopes up. Can Lil’Bridge play center ? Will Schafer or Hernandez be ready next year ? Hopefully Heyward and Freeman will continue to mash and develop so they will be ready by the time this team is ready to contend again.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:55 pmOr maybe the teams would lower their offers knowing we are out of time and desperate to move him.
July 29th, 2008 at 9:58 pmGood point, Dix. Everyone knew we pretty much had no leverage, and if they get the feel that no one is going nuts over two months of Teix, then why up the ante?
July 29th, 2008 at 10:00 pmWe might have been able to get more if we had dealt Teixeira when Sabathia and Harden were dealt, but I don’t think we were in a position record-wise and injury-wise to concede the season at that point.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:01 pmChief, you are causing me to be embarrassed to be an AU student.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:05 pmThe Tex deal was good.
It’s the Hudson injury which has me deflated.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:06 pmWa-a-a-r-r-r Eagle!
July 29th, 2008 at 10:06 pmThe Braves were out of this season when Smoltz got hurt. We may have taken a while to fade but this team wasn’t going anywhere without him.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:07 pmBethany, didn’t know you were in DC. We should get a Braves Journal group together for a drink, if nothing else.
Rob, I’m with you — I’d vote Bonds into the Hall, even though I’d be holding my nose. You just can’t deny the guy. He deserved to be in the Hall before anyone alleges he ever started using. Sad story, but there you go.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:09 pmAn AU student! I was an AU student, an ALumni, I worked in Congress for 3 years before moving home to NJ to teach and become a football coach!
July 29th, 2008 at 10:24 pmOnce an Eagle, always an Eagle!
I know that it was a necessity today, but do ya’ think there may be a connection between the lack of runs scored when Campillo starts and catching Corky Miller for him? It can’t help your team when you replace one of your top 3 hitters with the worst hitter in baseball.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:26 pmChief,
By your standards, who is elite on the Angels? They traded for Tex because they lacked power–but they have a 10 game lead.
It’s one thing to say that statistics are overvalued, it’s another to simply disregard them. And then you set up ridiculous standards that Braves players can’t meet so as to “prove” your point that they all suck. Like it or not (and apparently you don’t) but Chipper is a Hall of Fame third baseman. Making 50 home runs the standard for elite players is absurd; no third baseman in history has hit 50 home runs.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:28 pmAAR, I’m actually still in Alabama, though I certainly wish I was in DC.
td, I think it’s just a lack of run scored period. Before Jo Jo completely lost his touch, he lost two 1-0 games, didn’t he?
July 29th, 2008 at 10:28 pmI really think the Braves should sign me to play backup catcher, Ill do it for free, I have a good arm, I used to pitch and catch in high school, so I can throw guys out, and I cant hit worth a damn either, and my salary room will help them go out and get someone else, while I give the same production as the Hamster
July 29th, 2008 at 10:33 pmAh, I’m showing my regionalism — I heard AU and thought “American University,” instead of Bama.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:35 pmI did too, having gone there!
July 29th, 2008 at 10:36 pmI used to catch alot of Orioles games down there,when i lived in DC and not any good ones either!
And let’s not forget that there’s another Braves Hall of Famer who never hit 50 home runs in a season.
His name is Henry Louis Aaron.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:04 pmI’d like to point out that Blanco now has the 3rd highest OBP on the team.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:06 pmI was thinking it was Auburn University, because the other school is University of Alabama.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:07 pmOf course, only one Brave in history has ever hit as many as 50 homers in a season: Andruw Jones.
No other player ever hit 50 homers in a Boston, Milwaukee, or Atlanta Braves uniform. But hey, maybe none of them were elite.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:09 pmOh… Auburn.
Okay, I admit it, I’m a dolt.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:11 pmAndruw Jones is now getting close to Corky Miller like batting
July 29th, 2008 at 11:14 pmMaybe we can send Kotsay to Los Angeles, too.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:25 pmAAR,
I’m pretty sure you’re not the only Ivy Leaguer that didn’t have Auburn (or much of the SEC come to think of it) on the tip of his tongue.
A goofy thing: Until today I had plans to make it down to DC at the end of August for the Braves/Nats “Battle for 4th” series. Just found out I got a business trip instead.
A mild bummer. Was hoping I could catch up with some of the DC folk, but not this time.
(In my cheesy mobile-DJ voice) And I wanna toss out a shoutout to Bravesjournal pal & fellow Queens resident, RobBroad4th, who recently earned his Masters degree here in NYC. Well done, Maestro!
See you at Shea in a few weeks & the next drink’s on me…
July 29th, 2008 at 11:39 pmMarc,
I know its trivial and I agree that 50 homers is not the elite standard for a third baseman, but A-Rod did have 54 last year, so someone has done it as a third baseman. Also, I haven’t waded through the whole thread, but it sounds like the Chief has been taking too many hits off the peace pipe.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:44 pmOr dipped into the fire water.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:55 pmthanks for the backup Ububba
guess we could also say he might be tripping on peyote as well, but i don’t think he would even be able to construct sentences if that were the case
July 29th, 2008 at 11:56 pmFrom the AJC:
Teixeira said he had been “open” to hearing offers from the Braves all season, but got none. Wren said the Braves didn’t believe they could re-sign him after making an “aggressive” offer during spring training and having it rejected.
The GM said the offer would have made Teixeira one of the game’s highest paid players.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:03 amThe Braves probably offered 5 years when Teix and his agent are holding out for 7-8. Also doubt that Boras would let him sign during the season when there is such a weak crop this offseason.
The problem for me is there was one conversation, one offer and the Braves were done even trying to make a better deal to Teix. In todays market you really can’t make a take it or leave it offer to players in demand.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:09 amI’m back now — I’ll have a recap and trade reaction up in a bit.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:20 amAs I said last night, our philosophy when it comes to free agents is inane and stupid and makes us look like a second-class organization. This is exhibit 1A of that. I get the feeling that Tex never would’ve agreed to an extension and if we wanted him, we would’ve had to play on the open market, but the least we could’ve done is negotiate a bit. Isn’t it pretty standard practice to not accept the first offer in pretty much all negotiating situations?
I also think that a lot of people in this organization don’t want to negotiate or even communicate with Boras ever, not so much as a fax if they can help it. If so, this will wind up being really destructive if it’s not changed soon. Because like it or not, he’s probably the preeminent agent among baseball players right now, and therefore represents a lot of players. To just totally ignore the most popular agent in the industry is plain stupid. Do we think that it’ll just never come up again? For instance, as DOB pointed out in his blog at some point tonight, guess who Jair Jurrjens’ agent is?
July 30th, 2008 at 12:33 amCan someone get Kotchman a nickname, stat please.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:39 amNick, as long as JS is around, I would imagine things aren’t going to go spectacularly with Boras. JS isn’t the only one that doesn’t like dealing with him. I haven’t really seen anything about not dealing with Boras that has raised a red flag as an organization though. Maddux accepting arbitration I don’t think JS was thrilled with, but it’s not like they don’t deal with anybody that represented by Boras.
It’s way too early to worry about who Jurrjens agent is, in my opinion. Let’s worry about that in four or five more years.
July 30th, 2008 at 1:06 amurlhix, how about when I heard about the trade, it felt like a kick in the Krotchman. Rimshot ? Please ?
July 30th, 2008 at 1:07 amWe do need a better nickname: Krotchman is so obvious that I have been using since I saw him drafted…
July 30th, 2008 at 1:40 amThere’s a new poll.
July 30th, 2008 at 3:22 am