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179 Responses to “Francoeur is… well, you know what game thread: July 22, Braves at Marlins”
1
Mr. Swings@Everything Says:
I propose that we refer to Francoeur as HWS (He Who Sucks). My dislexia causes me to constantly want to reverse the “u” and the “e” in his name and it pisses me off. Plus, it’s much shorter than “Francoeur, who sucks”.
I was glad to hear what you said about the reply from FJM. I agree that a lot of the cliches about “not having heart” and “putting a team on his back” are bullshit. But, this is baseball we are talking about, not evolution or Iraq or health care. It’s entertainment when you get right down to it. It bothers me that guys like this seem to take themselves (or the topic)so seriously.
“What was the need to personally attack DOB just because he had a different (perhaps uninformed) opinion.”
It wasn’t a personal attack. It was an attack on the incredibly uniformed opinion on Teixeira. It must be frustrating to be a baseball writer who does have a much better understanding of the game than many who get paid to comment on it and receive no income for that. Futhermore, any professional baseball commentator or writer in the “stats don’t mean much” camp deserves whatever critcism they receive. To make such a statement is willful ignorance.
I’ve always viewed FJM as entertainment as well, and their tone as satiric, not that they sincerely get that fired up about bad sports writing. I read it, find it funny (mostly), and move on. Mike Schur (Ken Tremendous) did an interview once where he said even he doesn’t really know all the more advanced stats, but just likes to deconstruct bad arguments and bad writing.
“Trade idea: how about Tex to Arizona for Conor Jackson and a prospect? They need hitting.”
Great idea. Let’s see if we can do a straight up swap too. Francouer for Justin Upton. Take it or leave it Dbacks.
Tex numbers are so misleading. He is not worth 20mil, at least from the Braves standpoint. Can he at least hit JC Romero? or Cole Hamels from the right side? Tex is not that special, although 43 hr, 144 rbi and .954 OPS in 2004 was nasty. But it was on a pitiful Texas team, so no pressure.
From last thread. Wasn’t meaning to correct you, I was just putting out my thoughts a little more tersely than I meant them to come across. Please, forgive me.
Not sure why Tex’s numbers are misleading. Right now he is 30th in all of MLB in OPS. On some teams that would be their best hitter. On most, that would be their second best hitter (we just happen to have 2 great hitters). At this level, he is slightly below his career OPS, which is above .900. A .900 OPS hitter is a star, and that is what Tex is. Look, Fred McGriff played 4 full seasons here, and he didn’t have an OPS of .900 in 3 of those seasons.
On top of that, Tex plays his position extremely well, and he is very durable.
Tex may not be Chipper, but you get one of those every 15 years or so. In pining for the next Chipper, I hope we don’t overlook the 2nd best hitter we have had here, the last 20 years.
Bfan, OPS isn’t everything. Park and league context matter too. Fred McGriff’s career OPS+ — after a decline phase, which Teixeira has yet to undergo — is 134, 3 points higher than Tex.
a big part of the solution is correct. Assuming Chipper has to decline at some point, as amazing as he is, and McCann is going to slide as catchers do (all that wear and tear), exactly who do we build around? We have NO top prospect who has been as high as AA for the whole year, and our best prospects are 19 year olds who probably will make it to the show, maybe in 2-3 years (and show me a “can’t miss prospect” and I will introduce you to Andy Marte and Jeff Francouer). Escobar and Kelly Johnson are pretty good, but you don’t win championships (you don’t even sniff .500) if that is your best player.
fair enough on whether Tex can catch and stay up with McGriff (Tex may have his decline in front of him, but he may have a few best years, as well), but total up McGriff’s stay here and Tex’s, and Tex (over just over a year, I know), is better.
And even if you can’t get there (that Tex is better than McGriff), the discussion is then whether Tex is the second best or the third best hitter here in the last 20 years, behind only the best 3B in the history of the game. That’s who you want to heave, so that Scott Thurmond or another no strike zone judgment player like Casey Kotchman can come in, to make the middle of your line-up an out factory?
braves 14, Chad Tracy & Tony Clark are at 1B for the DBacks. Conor Jackson has been playing left field since Brynes got hurt, FYI. There is no way they would trade CoJack for two months + of Tex, because they would have no place to play him. If Tex went to the DBacks, which I don’t think is that insane of an idea, it would certainly have to be for Tracy plus something else. Who knows how much they would be willing to give up because there would be no way they would resign him, but I know they have been looking long and hard to improve the offense, I know they’ve at least discussed it.
A lot of deals with the DBacks (Haren & Valverde this off season, for example) come out of nowhere, so Tex to the DBacks wouldn’t shock me at all. He’d be the perfect rental for them.
Tex numbers are misleading b/c he basically did nothing for most of the 1st half when Chipper and Yunel were on base all those games. Tex is indeed a good player, not saying he isn
t, I just wish he would have been a little more consistent this year when the Braves were still pretending to be a contender.
My deal with JC Romero comes when he shuts down Chipper, Tex and of course the rest of the Braves when he comes out of the bullpen. Not comparing him to no other pitcher.
What are the Astros thinking trading for Wolf? Do they somehow think they’re in it? I hope Wren doesn’t drink any of the Kool-Aid they are slurping over there in Houston.
The issue with Tex, I think, isn’t whether he is a good player and worth signing long-term. Obviously, he is, regardless of what Jeff Schultz thinks. The issue is (1) whether the Braves have a ghost of a chance of signing him, and (2) if they do, whether it makes sense, given their payroll, to tie up that kind of money in one player who, although very good, isn’t, say, Albert Pujols. The issue of worth is pretty relative–it’s what you can afford. Teixera has struggled somewhat at times this year but, obviously it’s going to be very difficult for the the Braves to find someone else that can replace his production.
It was me, Chief. Kotsay isn’t any good but there are worse players playing regularly, and he still has a good defensive reputation even though he’s slower than Francoeur’s synapses. As has been pointed out, he’d be a huge upgrade for the Dodgers. Or the Twins — centerfield in Minnesota is a disaster. More likely, he’d be a good fourth outfielder for a good team. Which brings us back to our point of agreement — our outfield sucks.
Good point, hell I’d take him for a AAAA basher with no upside if he could hold a glove and play LF or RF for a couple years until we can stabilize this franchise.
I was thinking more “miscellaneous live arm”. I doubt that the Braves would offer Kotsay arbitration, and I also doubt that he would be a Type A free agent — so if you’re going to get anything for him, it better be in the next week.
@14 No worries, I hope the same goes for you. Always enjoy the posts.
I’m fine with FJM’s attack on DOB. His column’s argument, in the end, revolved around this line of reasoning – “But I know an impact offensive player, a player whose performance seems bigger than his numbers because he gets so many key hits. And I know the opposite.” – which is stupid and illogical and exactly the kind of thing those guys tear apart. There are many many reasons not to sign Teixeira to a huge, longterm contract, but none of those reasons emerged in the article. Personally, I could care less about DOB anyway. Give me Sekou Smith any day (yesterday, for instance, he excoriates the Hawks’ management without mercy, something someone outside this community should be doing to the Braves management).
I’m almost to the point where I can’t even get annoyed by the usage of HWS. I feel like I should because we’ll be stuck with him if Braves management continues to think he is a fan favorite. What will it take for whoever is in charge of that decision to decide we need an upgrade in RF?
What are the Astros thinking trading for Wolf? Do they somehow think they’re in it? I hope Wren doesn’t drink any of the Kool-Aid they are slurping over there in Houston.
As I wrote before, the Astros have ‘one player away’ disease, which requires them to do stuff like this and dooms them to mediocrity. We’ve shown several warning signs of having OPA, hopefully we won’t have a relapse this year at the trade deadline.
teix suix,,,,,,,,,,,,i know, i know, hes a pretty good player but i just dont like the guy. dump him for whatever we can get. its not like its going to cost us a pennant and theres no way to re-sign him and bor-ass anyway…….let somebody else pay his prima-donna ass.
barrycuda suix,,,,,,,,,,,,i know, i know, hes a pretty good poster but i just dont like the guy. dump him for whatever we can get. its not like its going to cost us any insightful analysis and theres no way to re-sign him and bor-ass anyway…….let somebody else pay his prima-donna ass.
It really bothers me that the Marlins don’t suck. They fleece their fans year after year by refusing to invest in building the team but they always manage to field a respectable squad.
Because they’ve been willing to make some bold moves and not be afraid and paralyzed by fear that they won’t work out. They continually shuttle in young talent by the boatloads and enough of them have panned out that they’re pretty good.
lol mac……………i grew up in Dade County but i cant name one Marlins fan. for course for most of that time that i lived there, there wasnt even a team in Atlanta.
I would characterize their moves as cynical. It’s easy to to be fearless about trading away established talent when Loria doesn’t care if the team competes. They lost Dombrowski to Detroit and just kept on truckin. It’s amazing to me that they play as well as they do with virtually no money invested. God help us all if they ever decide to spend any money.
Absolutely mind boggling. He literally CAN’T layoff the pitch at his eyeballs. It’s not a matter of won’t or isn’t….CAN’T…it’s the only explanation at this point.
I assume that was the worst AB I’ve ever seen. I mean, “I don’t want to be over-dramatic here” – but I really do think that was worthy of Frenchy’s greatest hits. If you know what I mean.
Anyone else on the team with no prolonged track record of real major league success…be it Escobar, Johnson or Blanco…would be gone if they were doing what Francoeur is doing.
Mac: He swung at three pitches at eyeball level to strikeout (hey…he fouled one of em off at least!)….the same pitch he struckout on the at-bat before.
Mac, he swung at the first two shoulder-high pitches and missed. He “fought off” the second shoulder-high pitch. Then he struck out on the fourth shoulder-high pitch. Which may have been up to his face. It was pitiful.
And if we get nothing out of this…
I remember on the Simpsons once where Homer and Marge were shown a diagram that demonstrated how all students around Bart were pulled into his vortex of underachievement … that applies for those who follow Francoeur in the lineup.
If nothing else, maybe this performacne will finally get Joe Simpson to stop trumpeting how much better he’s looked since coming back from Mississippi. (even though his numbers are even worse now than they were before and he’s never looked worse.)
I gave up on success this year weeks ago, but that last Francoeur at-bat and squandering those baserunners has me furious right now if you can’t tell…furious.
I wonder how many other players in the history of baseball have watched a pitcher walk the bases loaded and then struck out swinging at three pitches outside of the zone. That is a new level of suck.
Sciambi made a good point that the three guys who have been producing were already on base and have no problem getting on base, but the Braves haven’t found anybody to drive them in. All season. Freaking Jeffy.
I agree with everyone here. That was absolutely the worst AB I have ever seen. It is even magnified by the fact that the previous 3 batters all WALKED. Then to swing at the first 4 pitches – all out of the strikezone – is utterly rediculous. It almost makes me feel like I should be a big league ballplayer – I could do that crap.
The thing is, the other 29 MLB teams all have terrible players too. They’re mostly in the minor leagues or riding the bench. Our worst player is being marketed as the face of the franchise and plays every game.
Still the game is going on….
I told it we’re not gonna lose if Francoeur doesn’t come up with the bases loaded. Actually he had the best chances among mlb players and blew them this year if you search the data. He ruined much things by accident or design. It’s true. Next year? I extremely negative about him. I’ve never ever thought it before like this. Woner Wall. Gosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t believe in superstition though. He must go. I’m not gonna say I’m sorry for Francoeur’s supporters.
Oh christ! The Marlins announcers just said that it appears that their catcher, Baker, is looking into the dugout for which pitch to call. Please, please don’t let this crap into MLB.
Results, 136, results. I was at Saturday’s game and would have rather seen piddly Texas Leaguers drop for singles than the 395-foot outs at which we seem to specialize lately.
141, 132 … the blind love of Francoeur at Turner Field proves what my friends who are Mets/Yankees/Cardinals/Red Sox/Reds/Giants fans say about Braves fans … I try to defend us, but then Francoeur gets squeals of delight from the crowd when he swings any pitch within the I-285 perimeter … fortunately I did hear s amattering of boos this weekend.
Ring got cornholed. Oh, well — it’s the Marlins, and we’re seeing the Eric Gregg Memorial Fluid Strike Zone.
I was thinking that when Ring intentionally walked Ross, how unjust it would be if he let the next runner walk and Morton got charged with another run.
I know it’s been discussed to death, but I was thinking about this a lot lately with the buy/sell stuff: If I was Frank Wren I would not stand for Francoeur calling me out for sending him down. He would be sent back to Mississippi, and he would stay there for the rest of the season. When I broke the news to him I’d say the fact I did it 3 weeks ago is warning enough, in case he hadn’t seen his numbers on the scoreboard. In the spring he would have to earn his spot on this team. I don’t care if he is from Georgia and hits autographed balls to Denmark in his free time; if 3 outfielders outperformed him in the spring he would be on the bench or in the minors.
are there still people in the world that believe that “hitting coach” is anything but a ceremonial position? when the railroads didnt really need brakemen anymore, they kept them on and it was called featherbedding………………… there was a time when coaches made as much money as most players and actually had some power……….now unless a player asks for help, no coach trying to keep his fat job is going to go screw with the swing of some young millionaire who doesnt want his help anyway.
Can Wren even send Francoeur down again? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for it to happen–again. But Wren seemed to be so undermined by the call up, or so clueless (pick your poison), that sending him down again would look even more ridiculous (and again, I’m for it anyway).
This team sucks so bad that firing TP will solve nothing. I am considering not watching this team plays as long as Jeffrey is still in the Braves’ uniform.
KC……………i once kicked stuff around the house, cursed a lot and vowed to not watch the Braves as long as Andres Thomas was the shortstop. fortunatly, my boycott didnt have to last long. good luck with yours,
@ 153…I agree. It would come across as foolish but it needs to be done. I hope for all of our sakes that he was undermined (isn’t that sad) because if Wren’s glasses are that heavily tinted with roses that he actually thought it was the right decision…then we’re in for a bumpy ride.
Only Braves fans could be excited about Morton’s 6.00 ERA and K/BB ratio.
The major thing about this fanbase that I have observed for 25+ years of fandom is that its fans almost always overrate their players and think that they are better than they really are. Especially the fringe players.
This is how we know the team was ‘overachieving’ during the first two months of the season: Chipper was hitting out of his mind, the back end of the rotation was holding up well, and the bullpen was pitching really well–yet we kept losing those one-run games. Now, Chipper has come back down to earth and the kids are starting to pitch like kids again. Had this team’s record reflected the first two months pythag it would have been an illusion, and only now would the Braves be approaching .500. The morale of this story? The Braves were never very good.
Douglass (@163) – I thought it was good… I could laugh louder if this feeble hitting lineup didn’t have me so disgusted.
I feel like Harry Doyle… “And the Braves drop this one, 4-to-nothing to the Marlins. For the Braves…let’s see… one hit…that’s all we got? One damn hit?”
Ugh First post guys… Wish it was under better circumstances. Hopefully the Bravos can turn it around but right now, I’m having a hard time seeing how they’d do it.
Kelly Johnson – ZERO extra basehits in the Month of July. That’s right, zero.
Kelly Johnson – TWO extra basehits in his last 23 games.
Along with Francoeur he has cost us many games over the last 20+ games. If ONE of them hit clutch every once in a while the Braves would have a couple more wins. They are both horrible right now.
No, Jake! KJ is AWESOME. It’s Francoeur who sucks, remember? Not only did he strike out with the bases loaded, he also vicariously caused KJ to do the exact same thing.
KJ for MVP!
I propose that we refer to Francoeur as HWS (He Who Sucks). My dislexia causes me to constantly want to reverse the “u” and the “e” in his name and it pisses me off. Plus, it’s much shorter than “Francoeur, who sucks”.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pmTrade idea: how about Tex to Arizona for Conor Jackson and a prospect? They need hitting.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:30 pmFrom the previous thread,
AAR,
I was glad to hear what you said about the reply from FJM. I agree that a lot of the cliches about “not having heart” and “putting a team on his back” are bullshit. But, this is baseball we are talking about, not evolution or Iraq or health care. It’s entertainment when you get right down to it. It bothers me that guys like this seem to take themselves (or the topic)so seriously.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:30 pmYes, the D-Backs need hitting. Trading their best hitter would not seem to be a good way to address this.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:32 pmYeah, you’re right. I was thinking we could ask for Chad Tracy instead, but then they’d have 2 first basemen.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:34 pmCarried over from the previous thread:
“What was the need to personally attack DOB just because he had a different (perhaps uninformed) opinion.”
It wasn’t a personal attack. It was an attack on the incredibly uniformed opinion on Teixeira. It must be frustrating to be a baseball writer who does have a much better understanding of the game than many who get paid to comment on it and receive no income for that. Futhermore, any professional baseball commentator or writer in the “stats don’t mean much” camp deserves whatever critcism they receive. To make such a statement is willful ignorance.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:36 pmI did think about writing Ken Tremendous after he wrote about awards not mattering and asking for his Emmy.
July 22nd, 2008 at 2:37 pmI’ve always viewed FJM as entertainment as well, and their tone as satiric, not that they sincerely get that fired up about bad sports writing. I read it, find it funny (mostly), and move on. Mike Schur (Ken Tremendous) did an interview once where he said even he doesn’t really know all the more advanced stats, but just likes to deconstruct bad arguments and bad writing.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:11 pmAstros just traded for Randy Wolf
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm“Trade idea: how about Tex to Arizona for Conor Jackson and a prospect? They need hitting.”
Great idea. Let’s see if we can do a straight up swap too. Francouer for Justin Upton. Take it or leave it Dbacks.
Tex numbers are so misleading. He is not worth 20mil, at least from the Braves standpoint. Can he at least hit JC Romero? or Cole Hamels from the right side? Tex is not that special, although 43 hr, 144 rbi and .954 OPS in 2004 was nasty. But it was on a pitiful Texas team, so no pressure.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:16 pmTony, what’s the deal with you and JC Romero??
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:18 pmTo be fair, DOB saw Tex leave a lot of guys on base in one-run losses.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:20 pmIn regards to the poll; Jeffy Francoeur, like Jeffy Keane, acts three years old and as such should be grounded.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:22 pmAdam M.,
From last thread. Wasn’t meaning to correct you, I was just putting out my thoughts a little more tersely than I meant them to come across. Please, forgive me.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:23 pmjust pointing this out
Romero 38IP 27H 25BB 33K 2.13ERA 1.37WHIP
Ohman 40IP 29H 17BB 36K 2.68ERA 1.14WHIP
you would have to think that Ohman has some pretty high value right now
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:31 pmBetter yet:
Brian Fuentes: 39IP, 33H, 11BB, 41K, 3.23ERA, 1.128WHIP
Fuentes has got that closer™ marking though, so he’d bring in a lot more talent back than Ohman.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:37 pmNot sure why Tex’s numbers are misleading. Right now he is 30th in all of MLB in OPS. On some teams that would be their best hitter. On most, that would be their second best hitter (we just happen to have 2 great hitters). At this level, he is slightly below his career OPS, which is above .900. A .900 OPS hitter is a star, and that is what Tex is. Look, Fred McGriff played 4 full seasons here, and he didn’t have an OPS of .900 in 3 of those seasons.
On top of that, Tex plays his position extremely well, and he is very durable.
Tex may not be Chipper, but you get one of those every 15 years or so. In pining for the next Chipper, I hope we don’t overlook the 2nd best hitter we have had here, the last 20 years.
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:52 pmYeah, and Tex is also the kind of guy you want to build around.
He ain’t the problem. He could be a big part of the solution.
Oh, and Jeff Shultz knows nothing, NOTHING!
July 22nd, 2008 at 3:56 pmBfan, OPS isn’t everything. Park and league context matter too. Fred McGriff’s career OPS+ — after a decline phase, which Teixeira has yet to undergo — is 134, 3 points higher than Tex.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:09 pma big part of the solution is correct. Assuming Chipper has to decline at some point, as amazing as he is, and McCann is going to slide as catchers do (all that wear and tear), exactly who do we build around? We have NO top prospect who has been as high as AA for the whole year, and our best prospects are 19 year olds who probably will make it to the show, maybe in 2-3 years (and show me a “can’t miss prospect” and I will introduce you to Andy Marte and Jeff Francouer). Escobar and Kelly Johnson are pretty good, but you don’t win championships (you don’t even sniff .500) if that is your best player.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:09 pmfair enough on whether Tex can catch and stay up with McGriff (Tex may have his decline in front of him, but he may have a few best years, as well), but total up McGriff’s stay here and Tex’s, and Tex (over just over a year, I know), is better.
And even if you can’t get there (that Tex is better than McGriff), the discussion is then whether Tex is the second best or the third best hitter here in the last 20 years, behind only the best 3B in the history of the game. That’s who you want to heave, so that Scott Thurmond or another no strike zone judgment player like Casey Kotchman can come in, to make the middle of your line-up an out factory?
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:14 pmbraves 14, Chad Tracy & Tony Clark are at 1B for the DBacks. Conor Jackson has been playing left field since Brynes got hurt, FYI. There is no way they would trade CoJack for two months + of Tex, because they would have no place to play him. If Tex went to the DBacks, which I don’t think is that insane of an idea, it would certainly have to be for Tracy plus something else. Who knows how much they would be willing to give up because there would be no way they would resign him, but I know they have been looking long and hard to improve the offense, I know they’ve at least discussed it.
A lot of deals with the DBacks (Haren & Valverde this off season, for example) come out of nowhere, so Tex to the DBacks wouldn’t shock me at all. He’d be the perfect rental for them.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:22 pmTex numbers are misleading b/c he basically did nothing for most of the 1st half when Chipper and Yunel were on base all those games. Tex is indeed a good player, not saying he isn
t, I just wish he would have been a little more consistent this year when the Braves were still pretending to be a contender.
My deal with JC Romero comes when he shuts down Chipper, Tex and of course the rest of the Braves when he comes out of the bullpen. Not comparing him to no other pitcher.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:57 pmWhat are the Astros thinking trading for Wolf? Do they somehow think they’re in it? I hope Wren doesn’t drink any of the Kool-Aid they are slurping over there in Houston.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:03 pmTex is the second best or the third best hitter here in the last 20 years, behind only the best 3B in the history of the game.
We had Mike Schmidt?
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:05 pmThe issue with Tex, I think, isn’t whether he is a good player and worth signing long-term. Obviously, he is, regardless of what Jeff Schultz thinks. The issue is (1) whether the Braves have a ghost of a chance of signing him, and (2) if they do, whether it makes sense, given their payroll, to tie up that kind of money in one player who, although very good, isn’t, say, Albert Pujols. The issue of worth is pretty relative–it’s what you can afford. Teixera has struggled somewhat at times this year but, obviously it’s going to be very difficult for the the Braves to find someone else that can replace his production.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:10 pmNo Bobby Cox tonight:
http://tinyurl.com/6k4vnm
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:11 pmHey, in that last thread someone wanted to trade Kotsay.
Damn, I want to sell but jeez…
What might we get, Julian Tavarez, oh wait…
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 pmescobar in the lineup.
blanco
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:14 pmesco
chip
tex
bmac
baby jeffy
kj
kotsay
Can we at least bat Frenchy 8th?
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:19 pmIt was me, Chief. Kotsay isn’t any good but there are worse players playing regularly, and he still has a good defensive reputation even though he’s slower than Francoeur’s synapses. As has been pointed out, he’d be a huge upgrade for the Dodgers. Or the Twins — centerfield in Minnesota is a disaster. More likely, he’d be a good fourth outfielder for a good team. Which brings us back to our point of agreement — our outfield sucks.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:20 pmGood point, hell I’d take him for a AAAA basher with no upside if he could hold a glove and play LF or RF for a couple years until we can stabilize this franchise.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:25 pmI was thinking more “miscellaneous live arm”. I doubt that the Braves would offer Kotsay arbitration, and I also doubt that he would be a Type A free agent — so if you’re going to get anything for him, it better be in the next week.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:26 pmYeah I almost typed a pitching prospect with some tools, but raw, but I was too tired and Deadliest Catch caught my ear.
July 22nd, 2008 at 5:29 pmis it just my cable or is sports south on the fritz?
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm@14 No worries, I hope the same goes for you. Always enjoy the posts.
I’m fine with FJM’s attack on DOB. His column’s argument, in the end, revolved around this line of reasoning – “But I know an impact offensive player, a player whose performance seems bigger than his numbers because he gets so many key hits. And I know the opposite.” – which is stupid and illogical and exactly the kind of thing those guys tear apart. There are many many reasons not to sign Teixeira to a huge, longterm contract, but none of those reasons emerged in the article. Personally, I could care less about DOB anyway. Give me Sekou Smith any day (yesterday, for instance, he excoriates the Hawks’ management without mercy, something someone outside this community should be doing to the Braves management).
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:05 pmI’m almost to the point where I can’t even get annoyed by the usage of HWS. I feel like I should because we’ll be stuck with him if Braves management continues to think he is a fan favorite. What will it take for whoever is in charge of that decision to decide we need an upgrade in RF?
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:06 pmWhat are the Astros thinking trading for Wolf? Do they somehow think they’re in it? I hope Wren doesn’t drink any of the Kool-Aid they are slurping over there in Houston.
As I wrote before, the Astros have ‘one player away’ disease, which requires them to do stuff like this and dooms them to mediocrity. We’ve shown several warning signs of having OPA, hopefully we won’t have a relapse this year at the trade deadline.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:10 pmteix suix,,,,,,,,,,,,i know, i know, hes a pretty good player but i just dont like the guy. dump him for whatever we can get. its not like its going to cost us a pennant and theres no way to re-sign him and bor-ass anyway…….let somebody else pay his prima-donna ass.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:28 pmWell he doesn’t suck, but he’s not a 20 million dollar a year player, period.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:31 pmbarrycuda suix,,,,,,,,,,,,i know, i know, hes a pretty good poster but i just dont like the guy. dump him for whatever we can get. its not like its going to cost us any insightful analysis and theres no way to re-sign him and bor-ass anyway…….let somebody else pay his prima-donna ass.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:32 pmJeffy, if you have to look upwards to see the ball, don’t swing.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:34 pmWHAAAAA! The pitcher won’t throw the ball in the strike zone when I swing at it!
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 pmMaybe the Marlins could trade for Teixeira. I’d think they could use him.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:40 pmIt really bothers me that the Marlins don’t suck. They fleece their fans year after year by refusing to invest in building the team but they always manage to field a respectable squad.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:46 pmI really like seeing Morton pitch, hopefully he can continue to improve and become a solid starter.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:49 pmI do not believe this crap. Rick Van Den Freaking Hurk is no-hitting us?
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:52 pm#45,
Because they’ve been willing to make some bold moves and not be afraid and paralyzed by fear that they won’t work out. They continually shuttle in young talent by the boatloads and enough of them have panned out that they’re pretty good.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:53 pmAnd because they’re smart. Unlike some front offices.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:55 pmwow…….if mrswings doesnt like me, i must be doing something right.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:56 pmThough I suppose Marlins fans, if you can find any, are complaining that Charlie Freaking Morton is no-hitting them.
July 22nd, 2008 at 6:57 pmNo offense but speechless.
I didn’t imagine I still can see the comments like “Jeffy, if you have to look upwards to see the ball, don’t swing
“.
There’s no future in the Braves. How come? I leave the rest to your imagination.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:03 pmlol mac……………i grew up in Dade County but i cant name one Marlins fan. for course for most of that time that i lived there, there wasnt even a team in Atlanta.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:03 pmTex just an itty bitty bit out in front of that one.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:05 pm@ 48
I would characterize their moves as cynical. It’s easy to to be fearless about trading away established talent when Loria doesn’t care if the team competes. They lost Dombrowski to Detroit and just kept on truckin. It’s amazing to me that they play as well as they do with virtually no money invested. God help us all if they ever decide to spend any money.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:05 pmBases loaded, nobody out. How many runs will they get? One? Negative One?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:06 pmWell, look who the hitter is.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:07 pmThat was the worst AB I’ve ever seen.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:07 pmhe is effing useless.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmI’m online… what did Jeffy do this time?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmThanks for only making 1 out!
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmWow, that was awful.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmI’d rather see the pitcher bat sixth than Francoeur.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmAbsolutely mind boggling. He literally CAN’T layoff the pitch at his eyeballs. It’s not a matter of won’t or isn’t….CAN’T…it’s the only explanation at this point.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:08 pmI assume that was the worst AB I’ve ever seen. I mean, “I don’t want to be over-dramatic here” – but I really do think that was worthy of Frenchy’s greatest hits. If you know what I mean.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 pmAnyone else on the team with no prolonged track record of real major league success…be it Escobar, Johnson or Blanco…would be gone if they were doing what Francoeur is doing.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 pmhey, they’re on the road so somebody has to make the 27 outs.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 pm60 — Francoeur is swinging at every shoulder-high pitch he sees, which is why he has 2 Ks in 2 ABs tonight.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 pmMac: He swung at three pitches at eyeball level to strikeout (hey…he fouled one of em off at least!)….the same pitch he struckout on the at-bat before.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 pmKJ is getting on my nerves too.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:10 pmAlso, Kelly is sucking and I’m tired of it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:10 pmMac, he swung at the first two shoulder-high pitches and missed. He “fought off” the second shoulder-high pitch. Then he struck out on the fourth shoulder-high pitch. Which may have been up to his face. It was pitiful.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 pmAnd if we get nothing out of this…
Jeffy, sheesh…
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 pmI remember on the Simpsons once where Homer and Marge were shown a diagram that demonstrated how all students around Bart were pulled into his vortex of underachievement … that applies for those who follow Francoeur in the lineup.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 pmPathetic. Absolutely Pathetic.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 pmI have only slightly more confidence in Kelly then Jeff. He sucks in the big situation too and that is a problem.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:12 pmSame old Braves, same old Braves.
I hate this team.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:12 pmNo runs & still no hits.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:12 pmMid 4th, tie game, and I feel as though it is already lost. Sell.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:12 pmHere’s another good Jeffy image to photoshop.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:14 pmIf nothing else, maybe this performacne will finally get Joe Simpson to stop trumpeting how much better he’s looked since coming back from Mississippi. (even though his numbers are even worse now than they were before and he’s never looked worse.)
I gave up on success this year weeks ago, but that last Francoeur at-bat and squandering those baserunners has me furious right now if you can’t tell…furious.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:14 pmAnd here’s a classic “Jeffy is dumber than a dog” cartoon.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:16 pmI wonder how many other players in the history of baseball have watched a pitcher walk the bases loaded and then struck out swinging at three pitches outside of the zone. That is a new level of suck.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:17 pmFrancoeur just will not lay off that shoulder/face-high fastball. Just will not.
I’m not good with photo doctoring.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:18 pmSciambi made a good point that the three guys who have been producing were already on base and have no problem getting on base, but the Braves haven’t found anybody to drive them in. All season. Freaking Jeffy.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:19 pmmaybe some hate fueled Frenchy photoshopping is just the kind of therapy I need.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:19 pmsomebody must’ve been hollering SAAAA–WINGGGGGGG BATTA. in spanish.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:21 pmI would help but if i had his face on my palette I would just eviscerate it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:21 pmMore spin for Jeffy from the media. Needs no new caption.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:21 pmJeffy truly has taken the title of The Vortex of Suck originally given to Vinny Castilla in his days of exceptional suckage.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:22 pm*sigh* ballgame
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:25 pmAt least we’ve finally found a positive use for the Family Circus cartoon.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:25 pmWouldn’t it be kinda cool if Morton pitches a no hitter and the Braves lose 0-1 by way of an unearned run?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:26 pmGame over. Good night.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:26 pmHow that does not surprise me…
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:27 pmObviously, this is all Morton’s fault, and in no way the fault of the Strikeout Brothers.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:27 pmThat’s the difference between McCann and Corky. Corky wouldn’t have told him to give up a 3 run homer there.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:28 pmMrSwings, you might have jinxed him.
Or maybe it was our non-existant offense and terrible team.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:28 pmIt’s the kind of thing that gets him that reputation as a good teammate and handler of pitchers.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:29 pmWould you rather have Mike Jacobs for 5 million or Succouer for 20+?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:29 pmNow Teix will probably get 20+ from some team, but there’s no way Jeffy’s making that, unless he starts playing the lottery.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:31 pmI don’t know about Jacobs but I’d certainly take Larry Beinfest. He’s not a Braves old boy though so I doubt it’ll happen.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:32 pmI’d like to see Francoeur tarred and feathered and thrown into the Chattahoochee.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 pmsrsly, HWS is more likely to strand 20 million baserunners than he is to make 20 million dollars.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 pmCan we get a hit already, before I VandenHurl?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 pmHere is my entry (it sucks):
http://i38.tinypic.com/28l97xe.jpg
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:34 pm@ 103
The Everglades has more gators and is more readily available.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:34 pmCan we do what they did in the old days and just hang francoeur.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:35 pmIt’s amazing how Francoeur manages to get such a critical at bat, time after time.
If we have to suffer him, please, 8th in the order.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:35 pmIt’s not amazing, really — he’s hitting behind our three best hitters, so he almost always comes up with runners on.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:36 pmI agree with everyone here. That was absolutely the worst AB I have ever seen. It is even magnified by the fact that the previous 3 batters all WALKED. Then to swing at the first 4 pitches – all out of the strikezone – is utterly rediculous. It almost makes me feel like I should be a big league ballplayer – I could do that crap.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:36 pmAre you sure you could handle 3 days in the minors, though, Joshua?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:37 pmI meant Teixeira in #100 not Suckcouer.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:38 pmThis team leads the league in making below average to average pitchers look like hall of famers
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:38 pmHow about he’s tarred and feathered in Philly and has to walk back to Atlanta?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 pmDid Blyleven ever throw a no-hitter?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 pmI would spend an entire season in the minors, at lowest level of rookie ball, just so I could get a chance to play.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:40 pmTarred and tomahawked.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:40 pmI’m okay with losing, really I am, because we need to be sellers.
But this is just infuriating.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:40 pmNow, let’s watch the young, inexperienced Marlins manufacture a run.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:41 pmYou know, I posted all those “cry” and “tears” videos, but this team really does make me want to cry.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:42 pmThe thing is, the other 29 MLB teams all have terrible players too. They’re mostly in the minor leagues or riding the bench. Our worst player is being marketed as the face of the franchise and plays every game.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:42 pmshouldnt VandenHurk be off somewhere with his finger in a dyke?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 pmNOBODY make the obvious response to that, please.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:44 pmThank you, Chipper.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:46 pmStill the game is going on….
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:46 pmI told it we’re not gonna lose if Francoeur doesn’t come up with the bases loaded. Actually he had the best chances among mlb players and blew them this year if you search the data. He ruined much things by accident or design. It’s true. Next year? I extremely negative about him. I’ve never ever thought it before like this. Woner Wall. Gosh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don’t believe in superstition though. He must go. I’m not gonna say I’m sorry for Francoeur’s supporters.
Is Van Den Hurk injured?
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:47 pmno, he has his finger in a …
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:48 pmI’m really afraid that at some point an angry Braves pitcher is going to take a bat to the team and he won’t hit Francoeur.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:49 pmJoe just said VanDen Hurk had already thrown 94 pitches, but no mention of an injury.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:49 pmWere I the hitting coach, I would tell Francoeur this:
You will not swing in this at-bat.
If you do swing, you will be sent to the South Atlantic League with no chance of a return.
You will not swing, because it will ensure you cannot possibly do worse than you have been on your own.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 pm#122.
That’s the most maddening part of this, that the ‘casual’ fans love him so much.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 pmOh christ! The Marlins announcers just said that it appears that their catcher, Baker, is looking into the dugout for which pitch to call. Please, please don’t let this crap into MLB.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:53 pmOn the third out: “A big-time drive,” says Boog. Were it truly “big-time,” it would have been a freaking hit.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 pmI want to throw up…
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:57 pmIt looked like it was headed out of the park. Certainly better than his previous at-bat, which was admittedly a very low bar.
July 22nd, 2008 at 7:58 pmResults, 136, results. I was at Saturday’s game and would have rather seen piddly Texas Leaguers drop for singles than the 395-foot outs at which we seem to specialize lately.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 pm…and more than KJ has done all night, as well.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 pmI’m still here by the way. I just have nothing to add about this pathetic performance.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:00 pmMorton gives up only two hits. That makes me happy. He might be something good that we get out of this year.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 pm@132 It’s not just maddening, it’s surreal.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:03 pmgood news !!! the phillies new savior is getting lit up……….bad news, the mets are doing it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm141, 132 … the blind love of Francoeur at Turner Field proves what my friends who are Mets/Yankees/Cardinals/Red Sox/Reds/Giants fans say about Braves fans … I try to defend us, but then Francoeur gets squeals of delight from the crowd when he swings any pitch within the I-285 perimeter … fortunately I did hear s amattering of boos this weekend.
Ring got cornholed. Oh, well — it’s the Marlins, and we’re seeing the Eric Gregg Memorial Fluid Strike Zone.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:06 pmThis is like the fourth game of the last ten that we have been no hit through 4 or 5 innings.
How does TP still have a job again?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:07 pmRoyce Ring is AWESOME!!!!
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:08 pmI was thinking that when Ring intentionally walked Ross, how unjust it would be if he let the next runner walk and Morton got charged with another run.
Nice job, Royce.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:09 pmKJ and Escobar have been a big part of the problem lately, too.
Yes, I know Yesco has been injured, but his production is way down from last year and earlier in the year.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:15 pmI cant wait till August 12th when my baby is born and I have a reason not to watch this crap anymore.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:16 pmI know it’s been discussed to death, but I was thinking about this a lot lately with the buy/sell stuff: If I was Frank Wren I would not stand for Francoeur calling me out for sending him down. He would be sent back to Mississippi, and he would stay there for the rest of the season. When I broke the news to him I’d say the fact I did it 3 weeks ago is warning enough, in case he hadn’t seen his numbers on the scoreboard. In the spring he would have to earn his spot on this team. I don’t care if he is from Georgia and hits autographed balls to Denmark in his free time; if 3 outfielders outperformed him in the spring he would be on the bench or in the minors.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:16 pmMore Jeffy: http://tinyurl.com/jeffyweeps
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:17 pmFire TP.
Demote Francoeur.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:19 pmare there still people in the world that believe that “hitting coach” is anything but a ceremonial position? when the railroads didnt really need brakemen anymore, they kept them on and it was called featherbedding………………… there was a time when coaches made as much money as most players and actually had some power……….now unless a player asks for help, no coach trying to keep his fat job is going to go screw with the swing of some young millionaire who doesnt want his help anyway.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:19 pmCan Wren even send Francoeur down again? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for it to happen–again. But Wren seemed to be so undermined by the call up, or so clueless (pick your poison), that sending him down again would look even more ridiculous (and again, I’m for it anyway).
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:20 pmFire TP!
George Costanza for hitting coach.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:20 pmThis team sucks so bad that firing TP will solve nothing. I am considering not watching this team plays as long as Jeffrey is still in the Braves’ uniform.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:21 pmI do like the idea of hiring George Costanza…
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:21 pmto heck with this sell business … it’s time to DONATE
start with Francoeur, Norton, Miller, Ring, and Tavarez–TP can be donated to some team looking for a coach–they should be free to a good home
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:22 pmDonate, yes!
Not watching – how does Soriano look?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 pmI don’t think giving garbages to the needed can be considered as “donation”.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:26 pmmaybe so, but it surely means that selling such putrid parts is futile–nothing of value will be obtained in return
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:28 pmKC……………i once kicked stuff around the house, cursed a lot and vowed to not watch the Braves as long as Andres Thomas was the shortstop. fortunatly, my boycott didnt have to last long. good luck with yours,
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:30 pm@ 153…I agree. It would come across as foolish but it needs to be done. I hope for all of our sakes that he was undermined (isn’t that sad) because if Wren’s glasses are that heavily tinted with roses that he actually thought it was the right decision…then we’re in for a bumpy ride.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:30 pmNo love for the latest photoshop Jeffy?
Aww come on, that shit was gold, Jerry…gold.
(Why do they call it ovaltine? The mug is round…the jar is round….they should call it…roundtine.)
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:31 pmOnly Braves fans could be excited about Morton’s 6.00 ERA and K/BB ratio.
The major thing about this fanbase that I have observed for 25+ years of fandom is that its fans almost always overrate their players and think that they are better than they really are. Especially the fringe players.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:31 pmWell, I liked it, Douglass.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:36 pmThis is how we know the team was ‘overachieving’ during the first two months of the season: Chipper was hitting out of his mind, the back end of the rotation was holding up well, and the bullpen was pitching really well–yet we kept losing those one-run games. Now, Chipper has come back down to earth and the kids are starting to pitch like kids again. Had this team’s record reflected the first two months pythag it would have been an illusion, and only now would the Braves be approaching .500. The morale of this story? The Braves were never very good.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:37 pmthats why they’re called fans, Chief. some other teams fans seem to hate their players no matter how good they are.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:38 pmWell that sucked.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 pm“One hit? That’s all we got — one god damn hit?”
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 pmwhat did you expect?? TWO hits?
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:46 pmThat’s impressive Douglass. Good work!
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:47 pm169: That is exactly what went through my head a few minutes ago.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 pmSell tonight… Tonight.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 pmDouglass (@163) – I thought it was good… I could laugh louder if this feeble hitting lineup didn’t have me so disgusted.
I feel like Harry Doyle… “And the Braves drop this one, 4-to-nothing to the Marlins. For the Braves…let’s see… one hit…that’s all we got? One damn hit?”
Ugh
First post guys… Wish it was under better circumstances. Hopefully the Bravos can turn it around but right now, I’m having a hard time seeing how they’d do it.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 pmKelly Johnson – ZERO extra basehits in the Month of July. That’s right, zero.
Kelly Johnson – TWO extra basehits in his last 23 games.
Along with Francoeur he has cost us many games over the last 20+ games. If ONE of them hit clutch every once in a while the Braves would have a couple more wins. They are both horrible right now.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:49 pmTamland/jea- Looks like we were thinking the same thing… Major League is a classic
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:50 pmfamily circus is to comic strips as Frenchy is to big league ballplayers…………i’d just as soon never see either of them again.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:50 pmNo, Jake! KJ is AWESOME. It’s Francoeur who sucks, remember? Not only did he strike out with the bases loaded, he also vicariously caused KJ to do the exact same thing.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:52 pmKJ for MVP!
Recap is up.
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:52 pm