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115 Responses to “IN ACCORDANCE WITH CANADIAN CONTENT REGULATIONS, THIS GAME THREAD VIDEO IS PAIRED WITH ONE FROM AN EQUIVALENT CANADIAN BAND: June 29, Braves at Jays”
from the previous thread:
“On the negative side, Wren was not aggressive enough over the winter. At the winter meetings he said that he was after a backup catcher–which now seems like a lofty ambition. In fact, the winter would have been the time to get either a better hitting outfielder or another starting pitcher.”
frank wren does deserve to be kicked for keeping corky miller on any roster (a, aa, aaa, rookie ball, t-ball, etc), but on his defense once again, he thought (and so did bobby cox and js, i’m sure) javy was going to be the backup. if i was a betting man, i would bet that wren let bobby make all of the cuts, therefore keeping corky was not his pick. however, that’s still no excuse for him to be on the team.
regarding starting pitching: he had smoltz, hudson, glavine, jurrjens, james, jo-jo and a few other options. starting pitching depth was supposed to be our strength this year, and it has proven so. you are right that he was bailed out by campillo, but preparing for 4 of your top 5 starting options to be out for the season or implode at the major league level is something even js couldnt have done. i would say wren has done an excellent job in this area.
now the outfield situation. golden boy was a 160 game lock in right field (and looked to be improving). kotsay, anderson, and blanco were battling for center with one loser being the 4th outfielder. if that experiment didnt work, schafer would have been called up. diaz, coming off a strong season, was given the chance to be the regular left fielder. if that didnt work out, b.jones would platoon in left. i do see your point that our outfield situation needs to be addressed, but it seems like it might cost us too much until people are ready to sell. it is my understanding that everyone seems to be waiting last minute this year to declare their team “sellers” or “buyers”. any transaction that is rushed from a desperate buyer (such as the braves) might cost a fortune.
i do like your post stephen, especially this paragraph:
“It was virtually inevitable that a team built around Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Hampton and Chuck James would have serious injury problems. The idea that Kotsay would be healthy for an entire season was equally naive. Unfortunately, I don’t think that anybody who enjoys this site is all that surprised that Chipper would miss a decent amount of games.”
i cant disagree with anything in that piece. overall, wren did the best he could do with the money, and the situation, he was given. cutting pena and keeping miller, imo, has been his worst move to date. however, i think that was more bobby than wren.
one suggestion i can give to wren: grow some balls and override your old skipper every once in a while. he’s grown a little senile.
Maybe he has tried to make some moves, but maybe the other team wanted too much for too little.
This time of year teams selling have a huge price tag on players. If we can tread water for the next 2-3 weeks, then we make a move. If not, I suggest we sell. It will all be decided in the next few weeks. Maybe even in the next four games.
There has to be something emotionally or physically wrong with Frenchie. He was never that good; right now though (as in through half a season), he is horrible. We are way past too small sample size, here. A sub .700 OPS (.684) for a corner outfielder?
goat tie strikes again. we really need infante, kotsay, diaz, escobar, chipper, prado, smoltz, glavine, moylan, soriano, bob horner, and stockman back.
cox thinks kotsay and escobar will return tuesday but chipper might not be ready. man, what a boost it would be to have all 3 back for the phillies. i would love to see a normal lineup again.
So, I guess if Kotsay is ready, they’ll send Brandon Jones down? I understand on one level–he’s not killing the ball or winning games for us. But really, how much better would he have to be for the Braves to send Frenchy down instead (or dl him with the inability to hit)?
mraver,
we could call up Stockman and get exactly from him what we are getting from Chipper (except of course that Chipper’s hurt and Stockman cannot be used because, well, uh, I don’t know why). Maybe we ought to DL Chipper and call up another pitcher anyway. Offense isn’t really important, not when you have Gotay, Frenchy, Lillibridge, and the Hamster, right?
I wouldn’t have any problem sending B. Jones down (taking it as given that Frenchy’s not going anywhere). He’s had some success in the bigs, so send him down, let him build on it in AAA while they mess around with Blanco, Norton, and Infante getting starts in LF and (hopefully) spelling Frenchy in RF from time to time.
Without Chipper and Escobar, they can’t even scratch across one single run in seven innings against a pitcher with bad season stats. Even when he gives them gifts, like that wild pitch or the two consecutive walks to start an inning, they can’t do a thing.
If he was actually throwing games, I don’t think he’d be so obvious about it. The Joe Jackson method: He’d still keep up a hollow batting average for appearance sake and what not.
As things are, it’s quite clear to me that he just sucks.
I don’t know if Burnett has ever quite reached the level of “very good pitcher.”
I agree he has very good stuff, but as his career record shows, he’s a head case who’s just as likely to have a bad day as strike out 10+ or throw a no-hitter. He’s looked pretty good today locating the curve and fastball, I’ll give him that, but let’s keep in mind who we’ve got in the lineup also. McGowan and Parrish looked pretty good against these clowns too…
They need to make a move for a left fielder or a right fielder ASAP. They are still in this thing. Also I am sure this has been said before but couldn’t Javy Lopez have done a better job than Corky. I mean WTF!!! McCann looks really tired.
Hey Ububba, I posted this further explanation of my objection to that Bradley article about Cox in the other thread, but I figured you might not see it since this thread is active now:
Even if players do say that they appreciate Cox’s managing, it is difficult to quantify that effect, as Bradley seems to want to do by claiming that the team would have a worse record were it not for Cox’s managing. On the other hand, it is much easier to speculate that Cox has cost the team wins with his poor on-the-field decisions, because observers are able to use statistics to question Cox’s decisions.
As for today’s game, the only bad Cox decision the team seems to have been egregiously beset with is the lineup. I don’t know why Cox would hit Gotay so high.
bobby HAS to put someone on the dl if this shit continues. he had absolutely no options coming off the bench. 4 bench players: miller, chipper, infante, and escobar. i really despise bobby’s managerial skills this year.
While I have many times expressed my concerns about Bobbys bullpen management, bunt habits, and platoon over/mismanagement….what exactly did Bobby do to cause this loss?
This one isn’t on Bobby. With no Chipper, Escobar, Kotsay, Diaz, Infante, or Prado in the linup, this sadly is about the best lineup we can put out there.
man, those canadians know all aboot rock’n roll
June 29th, 2008 at 9:04 amCome on B Team! Pull out a win for us today!
June 29th, 2008 at 9:14 amDOB is going to be around long saying crasy things like this:
By David O’Brien
June 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this
I also agree with those who’d have Blanco (or Kotsay) move to RF when Kotsay gets back. Francoeur needs to go down for a bit, but it’ll never happen
WOW! I love it.
June 29th, 2008 at 9:44 amThat’s nice to read. I like it when guys make sense.
June 29th, 2008 at 9:48 amfrom the previous thread:
“On the negative side, Wren was not aggressive enough over the winter. At the winter meetings he said that he was after a backup catcher–which now seems like a lofty ambition. In fact, the winter would have been the time to get either a better hitting outfielder or another starting pitcher.”
frank wren does deserve to be kicked for keeping corky miller on any roster (a, aa, aaa, rookie ball, t-ball, etc), but on his defense once again, he thought (and so did bobby cox and js, i’m sure) javy was going to be the backup. if i was a betting man, i would bet that wren let bobby make all of the cuts, therefore keeping corky was not his pick. however, that’s still no excuse for him to be on the team.
regarding starting pitching: he had smoltz, hudson, glavine, jurrjens, james, jo-jo and a few other options. starting pitching depth was supposed to be our strength this year, and it has proven so. you are right that he was bailed out by campillo, but preparing for 4 of your top 5 starting options to be out for the season or implode at the major league level is something even js couldnt have done. i would say wren has done an excellent job in this area.
now the outfield situation. golden boy was a 160 game lock in right field (and looked to be improving). kotsay, anderson, and blanco were battling for center with one loser being the 4th outfielder. if that experiment didnt work, schafer would have been called up. diaz, coming off a strong season, was given the chance to be the regular left fielder. if that didnt work out, b.jones would platoon in left. i do see your point that our outfield situation needs to be addressed, but it seems like it might cost us too much until people are ready to sell. it is my understanding that everyone seems to be waiting last minute this year to declare their team “sellers” or “buyers”. any transaction that is rushed from a desperate buyer (such as the braves) might cost a fortune.
i do like your post stephen, especially this paragraph:
“It was virtually inevitable that a team built around Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Hampton and Chuck James would have serious injury problems. The idea that Kotsay would be healthy for an entire season was equally naive. Unfortunately, I don’t think that anybody who enjoys this site is all that surprised that Chipper would miss a decent amount of games.”
i cant disagree with anything in that piece. overall, wren did the best he could do with the money, and the situation, he was given. cutting pena and keeping miller, imo, has been his worst move to date. however, i think that was more bobby than wren.
one suggestion i can give to wren: grow some balls and override your old skipper every once in a while. he’s grown a little senile.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:01 amMaybe he has tried to make some moves, but maybe the other team wanted too much for too little.
This time of year teams selling have a huge price tag on players. If we can tread water for the next 2-3 weeks, then we make a move. If not, I suggest we sell. It will all be decided in the next few weeks. Maybe even in the next four games.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:18 amSchafer’s suspension really hurt us. I’m pretty sure the Braves were expecting to bring him up right about now.
This is the rubber game, but it already feels like we’ve lost the series.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:14 amThere has to be something emotionally or physically wrong with Frenchie. He was never that good; right now though (as in through half a season), he is horrible. We are way past too small sample size, here. A sub .700 OPS (.684) for a corner outfielder?
June 29th, 2008 at 11:15 amLineups
Cf Blanco
3b Gotay
2b Johnson
1b Teixiera
C McCann
Dh Norton
Rf Francoeur
Lf Jones
Ss Lillibridge
(P Reyes)
Jays
Dh Eckstein
June 29th, 2008 at 11:27 am2b Scutaro
Rf Rios
Cf Wells
C Barajas
3b Rolen
1b Overbay
Lf Wilkerson
Ss McDonald
(P Burnett)
Gotay makes me miss Infante and Prado… Isn’t that sad?
June 29th, 2008 at 12:18 pmfrancoeur walks. and in other news: hell freezes.
ugliest major leaguer: randy johnson or a.j. burnett?
June 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pmTurf, ladies and gentlemen: Making routine groundouts into doubles since 1966!
June 29th, 2008 at 12:34 pmRyan C, it’s got to be Randy. I feel like if I look at him too long I’ll lose my soul.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:37 pmDavid Weathers is in the conversation for ugliest MLer
June 29th, 2008 at 12:40 pmGo Jo Jo!! Nice reaction to a lead off double….
June 29th, 2008 at 12:41 pmshouldnt Julian Tavarez be on that list somewhere?
June 29th, 2008 at 12:43 pmMan, I love bunt singles!
June 29th, 2008 at 12:44 pmWho doesn’t love bunt singles? But who else hates guys who make Mendoza blush hitting in the 2 spot?
We got to get this team healthy.
JB
June 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pmGotay is beginning to make me nostalgic for Lockhart…
June 29th, 2008 at 12:47 pmNot even close, Gregor
June 29th, 2008 at 12:47 pmGotay batting second feels like a bigger joke than Francoeur batting third and Norton/Infante batting fifth ever was.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:47 pmAnd Joe Simpson’s advice fails again!
June 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pmgoat tie strikes again. we really need infante, kotsay, diaz, escobar, chipper, prado, smoltz, glavine, moylan, soriano, bob horner, and stockman back.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:48 pmWas it even close? cant tell by Gameday….
June 29th, 2008 at 12:49 pmSmall ball giveth, small ball taketh away?
June 29th, 2008 at 12:50 pm….franco, gallarahga,
June 29th, 2008 at 12:50 pmNicely done again by Jo Jo after the first two reached that inning.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:55 pmIts time for KJ, Tex and McCann to generate some offense. Then we can wait for another two innings for them to come up again….
June 29th, 2008 at 12:56 pmballs.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pmOh, gawdammit…
June 29th, 2008 at 1:06 pmWhat was the answer to the trivia question? I was not paying attention at all.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:08 pmLuis Gonzalez
June 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pmLuis Gonzalez.
Boog is not pleased.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pmcox thinks kotsay and escobar will return tuesday but chipper might not be ready. man, what a boost it would be to have all 3 back for the phillies. i would love to see a normal lineup again.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pmThanks. He was actually my second guess behind Todd Helton.
I wonder if we see Chipper hit the DL soon retro to the 25th, his last PH appearance.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:12 pmNew rule:
Boog and Joe can’t talk about how hard hit Frenchy groundouts are, even when they’re hit hard. Jesus, theyre trying hard.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:16 pmSo, I guess if Kotsay is ready, they’ll send Brandon Jones down? I understand on one level–he’s not killing the ball or winning games for us. But really, how much better would he have to be for the Braves to send Frenchy down instead (or dl him with the inability to hit)?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:17 pmNot like we ever really expected to get anything out of that part of the lineup anyways.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:18 pmAlso, I doubt Chipper will get DLed, as it’s not like there’s anyone we’d really like to bring up.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pmWould that ball have bounced like that on “grass”? I submit that it would not.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:20 pmmraver,
June 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pmwe could call up Stockman and get exactly from him what we are getting from Chipper (except of course that Chipper’s hurt and Stockman cannot be used because, well, uh, I don’t know why). Maybe we ought to DL Chipper and call up another pitcher anyway. Offense isn’t really important, not when you have Gotay, Frenchy, Lillibridge, and the Hamster, right?
Jo Jo is looking tough and smart. Its nice to see the other team experience inning after inning of LOB…
June 29th, 2008 at 1:28 pmI wouldn’t have any problem sending B. Jones down (taking it as given that Frenchy’s not going anywhere). He’s had some success in the bigs, so send him down, let him build on it in AAA while they mess around with Blanco, Norton, and Infante getting starts in LF and (hopefully) spelling Frenchy in RF from time to time.
Also, Jo Jo is looking sharp today.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pmBlanco looking good lately.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pmJo Jo is looking sharp. Let’s just hope he doesn’t have a Huddy-esque 6th inning.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pmMan, Blanco has been hella-hot after a good-sized slump.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:32 pmA.J. Burnett this season:
7-7, 5.07 ERA and 1.50 WHIP
Leave it to the Braves to make the struggling “ace-potential stuff” guys (Burnett and Oliver Perez) look like aces.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:33 pmLet’s score here, please…
Fun, interesting story in the NY Times about the 1968 season & the current offense/pitching trends, with regulation contrarian quote from Bill James.
http://tinyurl.com/5c3ptz
June 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pmBest thing Gotay will do all game….
June 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pmSo, is Joe talking about productive outs now?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:35 pmsome damn fine pitches there
June 29th, 2008 at 1:36 pmAight, Mac, now or never.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:38 pmBummer. We’ll we’ll have another chance in two or so innings.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pmStephen, I haven’t seen much to like out of Gotay unless he’s off the bench. Seeing as a starter is a little depressing.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pm*sigh*
Well, that’s 99 pitches for Burnett. Maybe we get into the bullpen next inning?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pmballs
June 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pmBallgame.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pmNice damage control there.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pmOne run in? Sorry, JoJo, not good enough.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pmGermany v. Spain underway on ABC.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:55 pmAlthough the game is blacked out here, there’s something very strange about TBS showing Mets/Yankees, instead of the Braves.
I wonder what kind of rating they’ll get for that game.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pmLike I’d listen to Chip on a day I didn’t have to…
June 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmThis zombie offense isn’t exactly taking the pressure off the young pitchers.
Jo-Jo has looked really good lately, did he change anything significant in the last trip to the minors or is he just locating better?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pmMy theory is that Joseph got some success in AAA and when he came back up wasn’t afraid to throw strikes anymore.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pmhow will francoeur blow this?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pmhow bad can one guy suck?
June 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pmA wild pitch, nice.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:00 pmBurnett does what Frenchy can’t.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmSomething tells me Jones and Lillibridge haven’t seen a whole lot of curveballs like that in the minors.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:01 pmNorton at .241 and Francoeur at .240. I still feel about ten times more confident that Norton will do anything positive when up to bat.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pmThere is not a gift in baseball that can be given that this puny lineup can’t waste.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:02 pmtrade francoeur to colorado and have signs that say “franCoor’s field” and let him hack at everything.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:03 pmFilthy.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pmNo reason to drop a hook on a guy who can’t catch up with the heat.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pmThis offense is terrible.
Without Chipper and Escobar, they can’t even scratch across one single run in seven innings against a pitcher with bad season stats. Even when he gives them gifts, like that wild pitch or the two consecutive walks to start an inning, they can’t do a thing.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pmGuys, What’s with all the venom against Frenchy?
June 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pmHeh. Gregor Blanco is the fourth best hitter in that lineup. That’s how bad it is.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:07 pmIf Francoeur had been suborned by gamblers and was intentionally throwing games, could you tell the difference?
June 29th, 2008 at 2:08 pmIf he was actually throwing games, I don’t think he’d be so obvious about it. The Joe Jackson method: He’d still keep up a hollow batting average for appearance sake and what not.
As things are, it’s quite clear to me that he just sucks.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pmLet’s be fair. AJ Burnett is a very good pitcher. Looking at his ERA for this season and concluding he sucks is silly.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pmLillibridge will never be a productive player with that long of a swing
June 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pmIf Francoeur was throwing games I’d expect to see some positives once in a while, it can’t possibly be good for gambling to just suck in every game.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:12 pmBurnett’s season stats are bad:
7-7, 5.07 ERA and 1.50 WHIP
He’s only 76-73 in his career too.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:14 pmBurnett’s just had some bad luck combined with control problems. If he’s not walking a lot of people he’s tough.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pmNow. Go. Get. Runs. For. Jo-Jo. Silly. Offense.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pmI don’t know if Burnett has ever quite reached the level of “very good pitcher.”
I agree he has very good stuff, but as his career record shows, he’s a head case who’s just as likely to have a bad day as strike out 10+ or throw a no-hitter. He’s looked pretty good today locating the curve and fastball, I’ll give him that, but let’s keep in mind who we’ve got in the lineup also. McGowan and Parrish looked pretty good against these clowns too…
June 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pmStrong outing for Reyes. Maybe we get something off the bullpen. This would be the inning in which to do it….
June 29th, 2008 at 2:18 pmAlso, what the fuck is Oliver Perez doing throwing a 2-hitter against the yankees?!?
June 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pmGah, I love Jo Jo to pieces, I hate to see this happen to him. AGAIN.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:20 pmTime for a smash, Kelly!
June 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pmCOME ON B-MAC!
June 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pmDon’t worry, Francoeur is due up in the ninth inning and he’ll take B.J. Ryan deep.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pmThat’s 6 LOB for McCann today. He really is in a bit of a slump.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pmReally, what’s the point…
June 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pmThey need to make a move for a left fielder or a right fielder ASAP. They are still in this thing. Also I am sure this has been said before but couldn’t Javy Lopez have done a better job than Corky. I mean WTF!!! McCann looks really tired.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:31 pmAt least we are back to NL games soon, so the pitchers can get to hit and have a chance to help themselves.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:33 pmIf Hudson doesn’t watch out, Joseph is going to take the presidency of the I Hate The Lineup Club away from him.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:35 pmHey Ububba, I posted this further explanation of my objection to that Bradley article about Cox in the other thread, but I figured you might not see it since this thread is active now:
Even if players do say that they appreciate Cox’s managing, it is difficult to quantify that effect, as Bradley seems to want to do by claiming that the team would have a worse record were it not for Cox’s managing. On the other hand, it is much easier to speculate that Cox has cost the team wins with his poor on-the-field decisions, because observers are able to use statistics to question Cox’s decisions.
As for today’s game, the only bad Cox decision the team seems to have been egregiously beset with is the lineup. I don’t know why Cox would hit Gotay so high.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pmOliver Perez kills 2 teams—the Braves & the Yankees.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pmI’m no longer the top hit for “Francoeur Sucks”, but “Francoeur Sucks” is now a suggested search on Google. Because Francoeur sucks that much.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:41 pmWell at least the Braves are working to defend their one-run road loss major league record.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pmI can’t get too mad at this lineup. It is what it is—lacking. It would be nice to scratch a run. But we have no players out there.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pmYou know who sucks? Francoeur.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pmNorton and Francoeur blown away by 88 MPH heat from B.J. Ryan.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pmAbsolutely pathetic.
We can’t trot that lineup out there again…it’s just unwatchable.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:44 pmYep…
June 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pmBobby please retire!
June 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pmHardly a surprise….especially with out punchless lineup…
Back to Spain-Germany…
June 29th, 2008 at 2:45 pmNorton, Frenchy, Jones, Lillibridge, Blanco, and Gotay – who out of necessity bat consecutively in this lineup…
…combine for 10 K’s. Sounds about right.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pmbobby HAS to put someone on the dl if this shit continues. he had absolutely no options coming off the bench. 4 bench players: miller, chipper, infante, and escobar. i really despise bobby’s managerial skills this year.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:48 pmWhile I have many times expressed my concerns about Bobbys bullpen management, bunt habits, and platoon over/mismanagement….what exactly did Bobby do to cause this loss?
This one isn’t on Bobby. With no Chipper, Escobar, Kotsay, Diaz, Infante, or Prado in the linup, this sadly is about the best lineup we can put out there.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pmPut someone on the DL and call up who?
Seriously, how is this particular loss on Bobby?
June 29th, 2008 at 2:51 pmMake a trade for an outfielder. This sucks.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:53 pmI have no use for soccer, of course, but I’m rooting for Spain on general principles.
Recap is up, unlike most of the team.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:54 pmI wish Wren would sign Bonds.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:56 pm