Today’s Fun Mets Fact: ESPN has now kicked the Mets out of their “wildcard race” graphic.
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121 Responses to “Early Game Thread: Sept. 11, Braves at Natspos”
1
kc Says:
That’s awesome observation Mac. Anyhow, a team losing six straight in September does not deserve to be in the playoff. They lost consecutive series to the Giants, the Phillis, the Marlins, the Braves, and the Cardinals. It’s time for them to go home.
A frequently cited criticism is that Bobby Cox has only won 1 World Series. That the Blue Jays won 2 World Series under Cito Gaston has also been noted periodically.
One of the reasons that the Blue Jays won 2 World Series is that they were willing to make the sort of traded that the Braves don’t tend to make (at least, not since the disasterous Len Barker trade).
The 1992 Blue Jays traded a 24-year old Jeff Kent (along with Ryan Thompson) for a 5 week rental of David Cone. Cone only allowed 4 runs in his 2 World Series starts against the Braves, and the Blue Jays won both of his starts. Cone then left as a free agent in the off season.
Kent has gone on to have what is probably a hall-of-fame career (though fortunately for the Braves, the Mets foolishly traded Kent for Carlos Baerga just as Baerga’s career was collapsing).
I wonder how many Braves fans would have been willing to trade off a young future hall-of-famer (say a young Chipper or Andruw) in late August for a veteran rental that brought us 1 more World Series victory…
10 years from now, when people are talking about Roman Colon’s hall of fame career, there will be some talk of how the Braves made a mistake trading him to the tigers for a three month rental. Sure, Kyle Farnsworth closed out all four world series wins, but was it worth it?
Then, there is that famous Smoltz – Alexander trade.
Just wondering because I couldn’t remember, was Jeff Kent that big of a prospect back then? I remember Ryan Thompson was a big deal and Kent was an under-performed prospect stuck behind Alomer. If I remember right, Thompson was actually the key prospect in the Cone trade rather than Kent. Of course, we all know who turned out to have a better career…
One thing I have to admit is that I am certainly not the best person to critizise Bobby. I started following the Braves in 1990 (the first of my three years of living in Atlanta, or Marietta to be precise), and Bobby has been everything I have seen and followed closely. I am pretty sure, when Bobby finally retires, I will appreciate more on what Bobby accomplished then what Bobby didn’t.
And no, I don’t think Gaston is a better manager than Cox and LaRussa. Saying the opposite is like arguing the Mets are better than the Braves, which is hopeless and impossible. At the end, there must be a reason why nobody offers Gaston another chance even though the Blue Jays won two World Series under him.
I have enjoyed this discusion of Bobby for many reasons:
1)We’ve all been able to stop worrying about LaRoche for awhile.
2)Nobody brought up the “genius” of Sparky Anderson.
3)In the glorious anxiety that comes from cheering for a team with this many rookies with incredible upside but no playoff experience; at least I have someone I know how to fret about.
It’s a Sunday in September. Time for the Braves to send a message; to expose another pretender in the gNatspos. To put them away.
Ok, I just tuned in. Bobby has GOT to stop hitting LaRoche fifth. A walk, a HBP, a double, an IBB, and then a sac fly. At least he got it out of the infield and didn’t GIDP!
McBride’s first appearance in a week. At this point you almost have to make Ramirez the #3 starter in the playoffs just so you have Sosa in the bullpen.
no disrespect to bobby, and i understand today that the guys just sucked.
but have you noticed he doesn’t just stop using these guys? Farnsworth, Boyer, and maybe a couple others are usually successful. yet, he doesn’t always use them.
i hate our bullpen. if the bullpen converts just 4 of john’s win opportunities, then he could have had a chance at 20 wins this year. if they could have converted all of them he would be winning his 20th today. if i was smoltz, i would probably be in jail right now.
so now that the rosters are at 40 why couldnt the Nats have called up a their 4th starter from AAA just to eat up mopup innings so they wouldnt destroy their pen by overuse
i dont think going w a commitee of relievers is the worst idea when you dont have a starter but when you have 15 spare roster spots why can’t pick up a few more pitchers?
NMS, the Natspos are “over budget” so the “team president” (that is, the MLB patsy) isn’t letting them add too many players from AAA. That they’ve made a lot more money than the original budget called for doesn’t matter. Plus there’s apparently a war going on between Robinson and Bowden, and Robinson is probably doing this to make a point.
They showed Chipper and Andruw in the dugout before the inning and they looked pissed. I say we all write letters saying terrible things to Andruw and Chipper to keep them pissed.
“NMS, the Natspos are “over budget” so the “team president” (that is, the MLB patsy) isn’t letting them add too many players from AAA. That they’ve made a lot more money than the original budget called for doesn’t matter. Plus there’s apparently a war going on between Robinson and Bowden, and Robinson is probably doing this to make a point.”
wow, thats just stoopid
if a team cant afford to call up one or 2 guys for a week-esp when they are in a race and could use a body to help an over worked staff-they need to join the international league
also what are the odds cordero has arm surgery in the next few years? it seems like they work him like a dog
The following dialogue took place between Jenny and I just after i witnessed the homers:
jenny: and this in RFK! there is no such thing as a bomb in that park. everything just creeps over the wall. unless he managed to get it in the upper deck
me: Chipper and andruw just went upperdeck
Didn’t the nationals make something like $15 million more than they were expecting to because attendance was so good? Yeah, calling up a few guys from AAA is really going to kill that profit.
Did Chip use his lame Blaine Boyer “I didn’t come up here to give up runs” anecdote which he stole from Don and has repeated on at least three occassions? And which was lame the three times I heard Don tell it?
I expect that the lack of callups has less to do with payroll and more to do with the owners of the Astros, Phillies, and Marlins calling Bud and saying that they’ll raise a stink if MLB lets the Natspos spend any more money.
That’s awesome observation Mac. Anyhow, a team losing six straight in September does not deserve to be in the playoff. They lost consecutive series to the Giants, the Phillis, the Marlins, the Braves, and the Cardinals. It’s time for them to go home.
September 10th, 2005 at 11:42 pmThat actually is a really fun Mets fact, and I’m not sure why.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:14 amA frequently cited criticism is that Bobby Cox has only won 1 World Series. That the Blue Jays won 2 World Series under Cito Gaston has also been noted periodically.
One of the reasons that the Blue Jays won 2 World Series is that they were willing to make the sort of traded that the Braves don’t tend to make (at least, not since the disasterous Len Barker trade).
The 1992 Blue Jays traded a 24-year old Jeff Kent (along with Ryan Thompson) for a 5 week rental of David Cone. Cone only allowed 4 runs in his 2 World Series starts against the Braves, and the Blue Jays won both of his starts. Cone then left as a free agent in the off season.
Kent has gone on to have what is probably a hall-of-fame career (though fortunately for the Braves, the Mets foolishly traded Kent for Carlos Baerga just as Baerga’s career was collapsing).
I wonder how many Braves fans would have been willing to trade off a young future hall-of-famer (say a young Chipper or Andruw) in late August for a veteran rental that brought us 1 more World Series victory…
September 11th, 2005 at 8:52 am10 years from now, when people are talking about Roman Colon’s hall of fame career, there will be some talk of how the Braves made a mistake trading him to the tigers for a three month rental. Sure, Kyle Farnsworth closed out all four world series wins, but was it worth it?
September 11th, 2005 at 9:05 amI haven’t bothered counting, but it might be interesting to note how many Friday Night Xtra games actually occur on Friday Night.
Not interesting enough for me to spend 5 minutes going through the schedule on tbs.com or mlb.com, though.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:35 amThen, there is that famous Smoltz – Alexander trade.
Just wondering because I couldn’t remember, was Jeff Kent that big of a prospect back then? I remember Ryan Thompson was a big deal and Kent was an under-performed prospect stuck behind Alomer. If I remember right, Thompson was actually the key prospect in the Cone trade rather than Kent. Of course, we all know who turned out to have a better career…
September 11th, 2005 at 10:36 amJoeyT:
I have time. The answer is 7 out of 15 Xtra broadcasts are on Friday nights. None of them are for the remainder of the season. They’re all on Sundays.
You’re welcome.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:46 amOne thing I have to admit is that I am certainly not the best person to critizise Bobby. I started following the Braves in 1990 (the first of my three years of living in Atlanta, or Marietta to be precise), and Bobby has been everything I have seen and followed closely. I am pretty sure, when Bobby finally retires, I will appreciate more on what Bobby accomplished then what Bobby didn’t.
And no, I don’t think Gaston is a better manager than Cox and LaRussa. Saying the opposite is like arguing the Mets are better than the Braves, which is hopeless and impossible. At the end, there must be a reason why nobody offers Gaston another chance even though the Blue Jays won two World Series under him.
September 11th, 2005 at 10:47 amI have enjoyed this discusion of Bobby for many reasons:
1)We’ve all been able to stop worrying about LaRoche for awhile.
2)Nobody brought up the “genius” of Sparky Anderson.
3)In the glorious anxiety that comes from cheering for a team with this many rookies with incredible upside but no playoff experience; at least I have someone I know how to fret about.
It’s a Sunday in September. Time for the Braves to send a message; to expose another pretender in the gNatspos. To put them away.
Go Braves!
September 11th, 2005 at 11:44 amLoad the bases for LaRoche.
This will happen EVERY day LaRoche hits fifth.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:13 pmOk, I just tuned in. Bobby has GOT to stop hitting LaRoche fifth. A walk, a HBP, a double, an IBB, and then a sac fly. At least he got it out of the infield and didn’t GIDP!
And is Marcus okay? Where did it hit him?
September 11th, 2005 at 12:24 pmit didnt even hit him.just grazed his shirt
September 11th, 2005 at 12:28 pmGood point about Sparky Anderson. I think Jim Leyland also has to be included in there somewhere.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:35 pmOh, why not? Furcalometer.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:37 pmHank who?
September 11th, 2005 at 12:49 pmAndruwometer.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:49 pm48. And thar she blows.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:49 pmAnyone else think that sounded like a metal bat?
September 11th, 2005 at 12:51 pmI think this Furcalometer might be just as revealing.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:52 pmSkip: “Langerhans is really a good outfielder.”
Thank you for that gem, Skip.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:54 pmAnd ha ha, Joey.
September 11th, 2005 at 12:55 pmGiles should change his middle name to “Doubles”
September 11th, 2005 at 1:07 pmI am going to kill John Halama. Then I’m going to kill Jim Bowden. No jury will convict me.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:08 pmDoubles machine.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:08 pmThe Nats radio guys just called Andruw “You-know-who.”
They are afraid of the name. Good.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:13 pmWow that inning lasted about 30 seconds.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:16 pmSo far, Smoltz has thrown something like thirty-six pitches.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:18 pmWe have officially given up. See you next year!
September 11th, 2005 at 1:26 pmWow. Thanks for the concession.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:33 pmYou know, part of Washington’s problem may be that those Red Cross decals on those same colored helmets make them look like the Swiss National Team.
September 11th, 2005 at 1:41 pmJoe and Chip are the worst broadcasting duo in the world. Their hackneyed attempts at political commentary make it even worse.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:02 pmAnd now Lee Greenwood. I almost wish it was blacked out.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:04 pmHere they go again. No lead is safe with this pen.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:16 pmboyer hasnt been very effective in late innings. bobby probably used him in the 6th inning for a reason
September 11th, 2005 at 2:18 pmWait, I thought the hats said they gave up?
Smoltz should have 5 more wins than he does.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:21 pmbooo come one bullpen
September 11th, 2005 at 2:22 pmI feel ill.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:22 pmYay – we get to lose with our best reliever on the bench AGAIN.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:23 pm…where is everyone who bashed Cox for not pitching Boyer in the eighth?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:24 pmlaroche is hurt
September 11th, 2005 at 2:24 pmFinally, Laroche does something to help the team – at least he won’t hit again.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:25 pmWell, LaRoche is done
September 11th, 2005 at 2:25 pmThe wheels have come off the wagon–again.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:26 pmHey, what happened to LaRoche?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:28 pmAnd it’s up to Reitsma. Sigh.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:28 pmSigh? He’ll totally get out of this.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:29 pm74 freaking pitches and Smoltz has to leave.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:29 pmIf he doesn’t, it’s back to the asterisks.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:30 pmSmoltz would be totally justified if he took a machete to the bullpen.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:32 pmfarnsworth should have pitched with the bases loaded.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:33 pmThey tied it up (the pen did, not the Nationals). I can’t believe it.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:33 pmNo, wait, they have taken the lead!!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:34 pmIf Bobby brings in Farnsworth NOW I’m gonna f*#’ing kill him.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:35 pmWhy take Reitsma out here? Two fly outs and a single is hardly being lit up. Are the lefty/righty splits on the next batter really bad?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:35 pmWhy didn’t Smoltz start the eighth?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:35 pmThis way, we have ZERO chance in October, no matter who we play.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:36 pmWhy did’t Smoltz start the 8th?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:37 pmat least now hopefully bobby will see that it should be mcbride and not foster as the first lefty out of the pen
September 11th, 2005 at 2:37 pmGiles hits a homer in the next inning, scoring Furcal, and Farnsworth closes. Just watch.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:38 pmThe most amazing thing is that the pen has conceded 5 runs and kolb isn’t involved. It might be more otherwise …
September 11th, 2005 at 2:38 pmMcBride’s first appearance in a week. At this point you almost have to make Ramirez the #3 starter in the playoffs just so you have Sosa in the bullpen.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:38 pmno disrespect to bobby, and i understand today that the guys just sucked.
but have you noticed he doesn’t just stop using these guys? Farnsworth, Boyer, and maybe a couple others are usually successful. yet, he doesn’t always use them.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:38 pmUn-freaking-believable. How does this happen AGAIN?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:38 pmYeah, just like he saw it shoult be Julio at first and not LaDoubleplay
September 11th, 2005 at 2:39 pmice, McBride hasn’t been that much better. More strikeouts, true, but he has control problems, too.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:40 pmi hate our bullpen. if the bullpen converts just 4 of john’s win opportunities, then he could have had a chance at 20 wins this year. if they could have converted all of them he would be winning his 20th today. if i was smoltz, i would probably be in jail right now.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:40 pm@JoeyT: Too late, I already shot my dog.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:40 pmFine, Giles can homer Orr in instead. Whatever.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:42 pm7 runs conceded on 6 hits is a scandal ….. go Julio ….
September 11th, 2005 at 2:42 pmJulio is so much better than LaRoche that it’s not funny, more sad.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:42 pmLooks like Hollandsworth will play first.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:42 pmryan c, good to see you back!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:43 pmCome on, Furcal. No double play.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:43 pmHow bad was Laroche hurt?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:44 pmGANT, SHUT UP ABOUT THE BUNTING.
(Although, in this particular instance, he could be right.)
September 11th, 2005 at 2:45 pmI hope Hollandsworth gets to play first. It depends upon there being a bottom of the ninth.
I do not believe this crap.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:45 pmjoey, mcbride had one bad appearance against st. louis remember? and we need those strikeouts in situations where you dont want runners to move up…
September 11th, 2005 at 2:45 pmits ok
September 11th, 2005 at 2:45 pmchippers gonna spank it and then andruws gonna hit a walk off to win it
cometh the hour …
September 11th, 2005 at 2:45 pmOH MY FUCKING GOD!!!!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:46 pmWhew.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:46 pmCHIIIPPPPPER!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:46 pmGET IN
September 11th, 2005 at 2:46 pmMercy!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmCHIIIII–PPPPPPAAAAAA!!!!!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmYES! My life is worthwhile again.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmactually i clearly meant chipper was gonna hit the go ahead HR…of course i stupidly forgot there wouldnt be a walkoff since the braves are on the road
God i am good
September 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmI just can NOT believe that.
Chipper is a god.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmThat was a long home run.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:47 pmIt’s not over boys!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:48 pmJoe, if Andruw wants to take out four or five members of the bullpen, I say let him.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:48 pm49!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:48 pmChipper and Andruw: “We are NOT putting up with this crap. This game is ours.”
September 11th, 2005 at 2:49 pm¡Otra vez más!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:49 pmAnd that was where Frank Howard used to hit them. Andruwometer, again.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:49 pmThe most bizarre game I have ever seen.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:49 pmAnd if Julio doesn’t get that hit, Chipper and Andruw never come up.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:49 pmso now that the rosters are at 40 why couldnt the Nats have called up a their 4th starter from AAA just to eat up mopup innings so they wouldnt destroy their pen by overuse
i dont think going w a commitee of relievers is the worst idea when you dont have a starter but when you have 15 spare roster spots why can’t pick up a few more pitchers?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:50 pmi think andruw was a little happy.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:50 pmIf we win it, a great game after all. W and LaRoche out.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:50 pmwhy would they still be pitching to Andruw? they’re nuts!
September 11th, 2005 at 2:51 pmLet’s not forget how bad the pen is though ….. we are toast in the playoffs. The ‘stros will never let that happen
September 11th, 2005 at 2:51 pm“How bad was Laroche hurt? ”
i missed the first 8 and a half inings…what happened here. im getting excited about the possibility of a lack of laroche
September 11th, 2005 at 2:52 pmNMS, the Natspos are “over budget” so the “team president” (that is, the MLB patsy) isn’t letting them add too many players from AAA. That they’ve made a lot more money than the original budget called for doesn’t matter. Plus there’s apparently a war going on between Robinson and Bowden, and Robinson is probably doing this to make a point.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:53 pmI just want to say: “COUNT IT!”
September 11th, 2005 at 2:53 pmThey showed Chipper and Andruw in the dugout before the inning and they looked pissed. I say we all write letters saying terrible things to Andruw and Chipper to keep them pissed.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:55 pmI say this every time. Farnsworth is ridiculous.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:55 pm“NMS, the Natspos are “over budget” so the “team president” (that is, the MLB patsy) isn’t letting them add too many players from AAA. That they’ve made a lot more money than the original budget called for doesn’t matter. Plus there’s apparently a war going on between Robinson and Bowden, and Robinson is probably doing this to make a point.”
wow, thats just stoopid
if a team cant afford to call up one or 2 guys for a week-esp when they are in a race and could use a body to help an over worked staff-they need to join the international league
also what are the odds cordero has arm surgery in the next few years? it seems like they work him like a dog
September 11th, 2005 at 2:56 pmoh would anyone else have pinch hit livan for guzman?
September 11th, 2005 at 2:56 pmChip isn’t very bright. He needs to stop talking.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:57 pmI can’t beleive we won that game
September 11th, 2005 at 2:58 pmYou know what’s scary? The Braves nearly gave the game away, and Kolbb didn’t make an appearance.
September 11th, 2005 at 2:59 pmThe following dialogue took place between Jenny and I just after i witnessed the homers:
jenny: and this in RFK! there is no such thing as a bomb in that park. everything just creeps over the wall. unless he managed to get it in the upper deck
September 11th, 2005 at 2:59 pmme: Chipper and andruw just went upperdeck
What will Smoltzie be thinking now?
September 11th, 2005 at 3:00 pmDid Brower pitch?
September 11th, 2005 at 3:00 pmhe started the 8th and got no one out.two men reached base i think.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:02 pmThat was Boyer. Neither Brower nor Kolb was involved in this particular meltdown.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:07 pmDidn’t the nationals make something like $15 million more than they were expecting to because attendance was so good? Yeah, calling up a few guys from AAA is really going to kill that profit.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:07 pmyeaaah sorry my bad misread the post.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:09 pmDid Chip use his lame Blaine Boyer “I didn’t come up here to give up runs” anecdote which he stole from Don and has repeated on at least three occassions? And which was lame the three times I heard Don tell it?
September 11th, 2005 at 3:17 pmI expect that the lack of callups has less to do with payroll and more to do with the owners of the Astros, Phillies, and Marlins calling Bud and saying that they’ll raise a stink if MLB lets the Natspos spend any more money.
September 11th, 2005 at 3:29 pm